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A Different Perspective
Found at the TSA Blog:
anon said: "TSA propoganda machine begins..." and so does the bloggers... unfortunately no matter how good or bad the tsa does it will always be viewed as bad on the blog, a real shame. al-qaeda has won, its turned the american public against the govt not the tsa. the actions of al-qaeda have caused these changes in security NOT the govt. they are winning by having americans turn against the govt. THINK ABOUT IT!!!! take yourself out of your little world and look at the BIG picture! taking out the WTC buildings werent about the buildings themselves but what they stood for, capitalism. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!! you are doing exactly what they want! |
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15281890)
Found at the TSA Blog:
Hmmm. Could this Anon be right? Could it be folks like those who post to TS/S who have given the victory to the terrorists rather than the TSA and the government? |
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15281890)
Found at the TSA Blog:
Hmmm. Could this Anon be right? Could it be folks like those who post to TS/S who have given the victory to the terrorists rather than the TSA and the government? |
Al Qaeda has won by making the US into a police state where TSA = STASI. Also these issues have nothing to do with capitalism, which is an economic system. It has more to do with the concept of natural rights which this country was founded on and which TSO traitors enthusiastically spit on daily.
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Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15281890)
Found at the TSA Blog:
Hmmm. Could this Anon be right? Could it be folks like those who post to TS/S who have given the victory to the terrorists rather than the TSA and the government? Ron, I realize that you are a TSA true believer, and that you post here mostly in good faith. That said, TSA and DHS are not infallible, and have consistently lied to the American people in the past, and based on their track record, will likely continue to do so. However, another FT poster says it best. Second, we're in the grip of a loathsome federal agency whose power and survival depend on feeding this particular fear. TSA must campaign against critical thinking. They have to keep the boogeyman alive, and keep spinning fables about how cunning and powerful he is, to keep TSA itself alive. Killjoys who point out how many traffic deaths, natural gas accident deaths, etc. we accept without starting TSA-ish zero-risk campaigns in those arenas are not welcome -- no matter how sensible they may be. History will record that America went slightly insane after September 2001 and that the insanity peaked, Salem-trials style, in 2010. Hopefully we'll eventually come to our senses as the Salemites eventually did, and understand it is deeply irrational to pursue zero risk in any human endeavor. |
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15281890)
Found at the TSA Blog:
Hmmm. Could this Anon be right? Could it be folks like those who post to TS/S who have given the victory to the terrorists rather than the TSA and the government? |
American government overreach and betrayal of our founding principles didn't start with TSA. Nor did it start with 9/11. TSA just helps the average Aerican see this dynamic in sharp relief. Many if us never forgot Ruby Ridge. It is, however, a common tactic of all authoritarian states to blame citizens for a lack of sufficient 'patriotism', or subserviance to the state.
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This is ridiculous. The point of terrorism is not body count. It is to cause people to be afraid and change their way of life.
DHS and the TSA are our response to terrorism, and they have changed our way of life quite a bit. The terrorists "won" when these agencies were created, and they continue to win every time we give up essential liberties in the name of safety "from terrorism". It is impossible to be safe from "terrorism". We can try to prevent future acts of terrorism, but the way we are going about doing it is amplifying our fears, eroding our rights, and allowing opportunists to grab up powers they would never have a chance to otherwise. Our government has many options to prevent terrorist acts, which do not involve changing American's way of life. Our government has many options to fight terrorism, which do not involve doing the terrorists job for them, by continuing to invoke fear. Our government chose the wrong options, and the recent major overstepping by the TSA has caused some people to wake up to this. It was one thing to deal with stupidity like the 3-1-1 rule, the shoe carnival rule, etc - but techno-strip-searches and bodily searches/gropings have really pissed some people off. Is it enough people to cause change? I don't know. But I do believe that they next ridiculous response TSA has to some new threat will not be taken as lightly as the previous responses. Eventually enough people will get pissed off. And eventually changes will be made, either through civil disobedience or elections. |
Every time someone criticizes the government or the TSA, the tewwowists eat a kitten.
Please, think of the kittens! :p http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...40fdb9aa-1.jpg |
The TSA has a symbiotic relationship with terrorists. They need the terrorists and depend upon them for their raison d'etre and their $7bn budget. When al Qaeda says "jump", the TSA asks "how high" while it's already on the way up.
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Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15281890)
Could this Anon be right? Could it be folks like those who post to TS/S who have given the victory to the terrorists rather than the TSA and the government?
TSA basically made the bed it lies in today. It's virtually the only arm of government that doesn't set out to curry public support; even the IRS tries to explain itself, and relate to taxpayers. Instead TSA treats every criticism as an act of treason, and threatens or smears its critics. Your post is a fine example of this -- you suggest that any TSA opponent is a traitor. TSA is a totalitarian agency operating in a democratic society. (It's depressing to see the substantial American appetite for totalitarianism revealed in peoples' slavish expressions of support for extreme TSA actions.) The mismatch cannot persist. Either TSA eventually succumbs to the customary rules of American democracy, or the US slides toward totalitarianism. The comparisons some here make to East Germany's Stasi are a little hyperbolic, but in point of fact TSA demands just such an operating brief for itself: the power to set up shop anywhere, make citizens do anything, and arrest all critics. No enemy real or imagined justifies this. It's incredibly difficult for TSA to claim it's "defending the homeland" when its very operating principles strike at the heart of American values. Happy Thanksgiving, TSORon. Remember, the pilgrims were fleeing royalist tyranny. I think they'd be heartbroken at how much political tyranny now stains the new world they risked everything to reach. |
Originally Posted by halls120
(Post 15282102)
Your suggestion that those of us who oppose TSA policies and procedures are giving aid and comfort to the enemy is disgusting, unAmerican, and smacks of fascism.
Or is it exhibit Z?... |
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 15282698)
TSORon, TSA began life with enormous goodwill and support from the traveling public. Way back when, most of us thought it was a fine idea to upgrade the professionalism level we saw from random rent-a-cops at checkpoints -- especially post-9/11. You didn't start out hated; you made yourself hated -- by refusing to explain yourself; by tolerating an out-of-control workforce; by dodging all accountability; by perpetrating terrible abuses on innocent citizens; and by denying they occur.
Then I found FT TS&S, and it was primarily the posts from TSOs and the way that they spoke about and to the public which made me open my eyes. Combine that with some very bad experiences this year, and my opinion has changed completely. I am surprised that a government agency does let TSOs continue to post in a way which continues to decrease public opinion. There have been some very helpful and respectful TSOs who did post here, but they seem to have disappeared, and I am not certain that they were just driven away by the anti-TSA crowd. The continual cries of 'everybody lies', 'it didn't happen', 'SOP is....' does nothing to improve the relationship here, in my view. I don't agree with name-calling and hyperbole on either side, but it is the TSA which is being evaluated here and which should be trying to improve its reputation. |
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 15282698)
TSORon, TSA began life with enormous goodwill and support from the traveling public. Way back when, most of us thought it was a fine idea to upgrade the professionalism level we saw from random rent-a-cops at checkpoints -- especially post-9/11. You didn't start out hated; you made yourself hated -- by refusing to explain yourself; by tolerating an out-of-control workforce; by dodging all accountability; by perpetrating terrible abuses on innocent citizens; and by denying they occur.
1 I didn’t write the anon post, I just happen to be willing to consider its validity. I know it counters the prevailing lack of wisdom here, which is why I posted it as “A different perspective” rather than an attempt to state it as fact as is oh so very common here. 2 You write quite a bit of rhetoric, but little that has any actual support to it. Just because you refuse to see the accountability does not mean that it is not there. What you believe are abuses are no more or less than what we as citizens have asked the government to provide for us. And of course the government rarely explains what it does in detail, and for well known and sometimes very good reasons. Someone out there in the government knows what is done and why and they consider it valid. You don’t, oh well.
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 15282698)
TSA basically made the bed it lies in today. It's virtually the only arm of government that doesn't set out to curry public support; even the IRS tries to explain itself, and relate to taxpayers. Instead TSA treats every criticism as an act of treason, and threatens or smears its critics.
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 15282698)
Your post is a fine example of this -- you suggest that any TSA opponent is a traitor. TSA is a totalitarian agency operating in a democratic society. (It's depressing to see the substantial American appetite for totalitarianism revealed in peoples' slavish expressions of support for extreme TSA actions.)
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 15282698)
The mismatch cannot persist. Either TSA eventually succumbs to the customary rules of American democracy, or the US slides toward totalitarianism. The comparisons some here make to East Germany's Stasi are a little hyperbolic, but in point of fact TSA demands just such an operating brief for itself: the power to set up shop anywhere, make citizens do anything, and arrest all critics. No enemy real or imagined justifies this.
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 15282698)
[It's incredibly difficult for TSA to claim it's "defending the homeland" when its very operating principles strike at the heart of American values.
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 15282698)
Happy Thanksgiving, TSORon. Remember, the pilgrims were fleeing royalist tyranny. I think they'd be heartbroken at how much political tyranny now stains the new world they risked everything to reach.
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Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15281890)
Hmmm. Could this Anon be right? Could it be folks like those who post to TS/S who have given the victory to the terrorists rather than the TSA and the government?
:rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15283043)
What you believe are abuses are no more or less than what we as citizens have asked the government to provide for us.
Originally Posted by TSORon
Government is here to serve a purpose, not to make 100% of its citizens happy or lick their shoes.
Originally Posted by TSORon
I sincerely hope that one day you will understand that freedom is not free.
And considering how many TSOs spend their shifts slugging down Starbucks, screaming at innocent Americans and scoping cute girls for the Nude-o-Scopes while my brother's remains lie in a wrecked airplane at the bottom of the Caribbean Sea, perhaps we'd better not start comparing notes on duty and sacrifice, hmm? Don't condescend to your public, sir. And especially not people in my position. |
seems to me TSA is spending a lot more time looking at our private parts for weapons, etc., than our government did looking for WMD...
in both cases, they don't seem to find anything. at what point are random searches of homes going to start? if they can't find the goods on air travelers, where will they look next? |
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15281890)
Hmmm. Could this Anon be right? Could it be folks like those who post to TS/S who have given the victory to the terrorists rather than the TSA and the government?
|
Originally Posted by sobetraveler
(Post 15283222)
if they can't find the goods on air travelers, where will they look next?
For a start. |
Since 9/11 the US Federal Govt has REPEATEDLY raped americans of their rights, freedoms and liberties.
the Patriot Act. Warrantless wire tapping immunity given to telecoms against lawsuits and criminal charges the creation of DHS Need I mention Katrina and the thousands of weapons ILLEGALLY siezed by the US Govt? Peaceful protesters who have been harassed and arrested by the Govt Google RNC Protest in St Paul... the term 'tea bagger' is a sexually explicit term the DMCA act which forbids any person or group from reverse engineering any program. Meaning that electronic voting machines are off limits to public scrutiny Election fraud on a national basis States, such as NY wanting to make any gun larger than a .22 calibre ILLEGAL to even own the Govt sponsoring forcing ammunition manafactuers to code each and every round with a code so the shell casing can be traced back to its 'owner' The 'wants' of the govt to outlaw any weapon that can accurately hit a target 1 mile away. freedom of speach violations imposed by our govt, I remember wasnt there a lady from the Dept of Agriculture fired for speaking her mind against the govt? a 10,000 plus word dictionary that scans every email sent or recieved with in the US by the NSA The forced logging of the govt to ISPs of every website you visit... forever. GPS enabled cell phones - but you cant turn off the GPS part Enhanced Drivers Licenses and thats not even the tip of the ice berg, all in the name of 'fighting terrorism' Now, men women and children of all ages are forced to undergo forced strip searches and sexual assualt before board and air plane, and soon to be installed at every major MSS transit station in the country. This isnt about 'terrorists' its about control. Removing freedoms, rights and liberties of the american populace. Dont even get me started on the FORCED wage reduction and inflation occurring with in the US |
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 15283206)
Government derives from the consent of the governed. I'm pretty sure I've read that somewhere.
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 15283206)
Having had my aviator brother killed while flying for the United States Navy I think I'm pretty well acquainted with that concept, thank you. And I think I know what he'd say about the current tragic state of the nation he died defending. He's consider TSA, and its critics-are-traitors line of reasoning, a malignant perversion.
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 15283206)
And considering how many TSOs spend their shifts slugging down Starbucks, screaming at innocent Americans and scoping cute girls for the Nude-o-Scopes while my brother's remains lie in a wrecked airplane at the bottom of the Caribbean Sea, perhaps we'd better not start comparing notes on duty and sacrifice, hmm?
Don't condescend to your public, sir. And especially not people in my position. |
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15283043)
What you believe are abuses are no more or less than what we as citizens have asked the government to provide for us.
You can lie about history all you like, but we can still go back and read the newspaper articles and executive orders that were written at the time. You'll only fool the lazy. And of course the government rarely explains what it does in detail, and for well known and sometimes very good reasons. Someone out there in the government knows what is done and why and they consider it valid. You don’t, oh well. Why do you feel that government must “curry public support”? Government is here to serve a purpose, not to make 100% of its citizens happy or lick their shoes. |
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15283043)
And of course the government rarely explains what it does in detail, and for well known and sometimes very good reasons.
This is even more important when individual rights are concerned. For example, the fact that TSA won't tell people what its agents are allowed to do in a search is bizarre and unAmerican because this nation is founded on understand and defending personal rights. How can you defend your rights when you don't know what they are? We get them piecemeal, like "no open hand genital groping of children (possibly)", or "no hands in underwear" - but what that translates into is that few people can recognize when the TSO is crossing the line. Someone out there in the government knows what is done and why and they consider it valid. You don’t, oh well. Why do you feel that government must “curry public support”? Government is here to serve a purpose, not to make 100% of its citizens happy or lick their shoes. TSO’s have no arrest powers other than that of every citizen. We are not law enforcement officers, please stop indicating that we are. I sincerely hope that one day you will understand that freedom is not free. |
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15281890)
Found at the TSA Blog:
Hmmm. Could this Anon be right? Could it be folks like those who post to TS/S who have given the victory to the terrorists rather than the TSA and the government? And, sorry, TSA has to assume a lot of the blame (along with both the current and past administration). TSA has decided, unilaterally, that Constitutional guarantees are less important than the illusion of safety (we've already discussed, many times, why TSA's measures are ineffective, both in terms of its omissions as well as its affirmative actions). Even assuming TSA's measures were effective, the agency has chosen to implement them through poorly trained, poorly educated TSOs (as compared to true intelligence and/or military professionals), too many of whom are reminiscent of the jack-booted thugs typical of fascist dictatorships. That anyone could think that criticism of this inefficient, bullying, costly, ineffective organization is a victory for the terrorists is, frankly, ridiculous. |
al-qaeda has won, its turned the american public against the govt not the tsa unlike north korea, any american is free to throw the "bs flag" at anyone, including the president. the day the people lose or give away that right will mark the beginning of a very short endgame for the USA as a nation SR |
Light Bulb!
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15283043)
And of course the government rarely explains what it does in detail, and for well known and sometimes very good reasons. Someone out there in the government knows what is done and why and they consider it valid. You don’t, oh well.
Why do you feel that government must “curry public support”? Government is here to serve a purpose, not to make 100% of its citizens happy or lick their shoes.
Originally Posted by maradydd
(Post 15283569)
You seem to be missing the point that the government works for us, not the other way around.
Again: the government works for us, not the other way around.
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15283043)
“Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” The TSA does its very best to make those “American values” available to every person who feels the need to board a commercial aircraft.
"Listen to us, we know what's best for you." "Because we said so! You don't need to know why!" "We don't care if don't like it, go to your room." "You're lucky we let you step out of this house at all." Many people have forgotten that we, in America, born as citizens have an inherent right to our own lives, while it's the government that's limited in how it "lives". Obviously, there is a role that government plays in the protection of it's citizens, but it has to be done with the understanding that the citizen's opinions and feelings ARE to be respected and their continued rights to life and liberty remain intact. And it really bothers me that TSORon doesn't understand this. Maybe one day... |
Originally Posted by Munch
(Post 15283231)
No and no. TSA remains al Qaeda's most spectacular ROI.
+eleventybajillion. Getting their opponents to pay out of their own pockets to shred their own way of life, to destroy their own rights, was perhaps Al Qaeda's crowning achievement. Although getting allegedly-well-intentioned members of the American people (such as Ron, or the "anything for security!" crowd) to serve as cheerleaders for that destruction is way up there, too.:td: |
TSORon, I'm one of those folks who sit in the political middle who think you get beaten up too much in this forum. Not that it matters (who am I) but I've even agreed with your opinion in some threads. However, I've lost a lot of respect for you after reading your post and some of the comments in this thread. You may not be the anonymous poster, but by posting their opinion and stating your initial question, you basically suggest you agree that anyone who disagrees with the TSA is automatically supporting terrorists.
I really want to believe that the government and TSA are trying to protect us. I want to believe that they care about the public and are trying to minimize the disruptions to flyers. It just gets harder and harder to believe that when I see a post like yours. If you're a senior person at your airport, you have a responsibility to represent the truth to the public. This forum is all about providing your opinion, but you should understand that calling yourself TSORon means you will be held to a different standard than someone called "bumblebee123". |
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15283043)
<snip>
“Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” The TSA does its very best to make those “American values” available to every person who feels the need to board a commercial aircraft. Your opinion about its “operating principals" (sic) is just that, opinion. And ignorance is really a poor excuse for it.
Originally Posted by LeeAnne
(Post 15278616)
Well, unfortunately things did not go as well as I thought. I just talked to Mom, and more details emerged. She didn't want to share them while in the car with my daughter. When she was pulled away for the grope, she says she started to tell the woman doing the groping that her right breast is still very tender and has healing surgical wounds on it, but the woman actually put her hand up in front of my mother’s face, as if to signal her to shut up! My mother, terrified of another horrible experience, quickly did just that – she shut up. I find this shocking, given what recently happened to the man with the urostomy bag. Even with all that publicity, including a phone call from John Pistole to the man to apologize, is it STILL not understood by TSA agents that they need to allow their victims to tell them about their medical issues??? The agent used the back of her hand to press in and circle the entire exterior of each breast – including the sore one. Sure enough, it hurt. But my mother didn’t say a word – just stood there wincing and took it. Because she wants to see her grandkids. When the TSA agent did the inner-thigh rub, and got up to the point where her hand “met resistance” (yeah, a lovely euphemism for “touched her labia”), she apparently noticed that my mother was wearing an adult diaper. She asked her what she had “in her pants” – loud enough for others around her to hear. My mother quietly replied, “a Depends”. “A what?” asked the TSA agent. “A…a diaper!” my mother said, feeling humiliated. The agent made her lift her shirt to SHOW her the top of her diaper. All I can say is, thank God it was the full brief-type, rather than a pad. Would the agent have asked her to pull her pants down to show it to her?? Then she ran her gloved fingers all along the inside of her diaper, while my mother stood there holding her shirt up, for all the other passengers to see her 73-year-old bare midriff. At this point she regretted not asking for a private room, but it was too late – it was almost over. (Plus I'd told her NOT to ask for a private room, because I didn't want my mother being molested where she couldn't be seen.) So much for being allowed to maintain your dignity. Anyone who thinks this is okay is sick. This is NOT what my soldier son is fighting for. I’m ashamed to be an American today, if this is what our government thinks is acceptable treatment of our senior citizens. My mother has been a patriot and a good citizen for her entire life. She's never had so much as a speeding ticket. She's voted in every election she was qualified to vote in. She married a veteran of the Korean war (my dad), gave birth to a son who served in the Air Force (my brother), and has a grandson currently in the Army (my son). She goes to church, gives to the needy, and supports herself without government handouts. And THIS is what our government subjects her to - just so she can go spend Thanksgiving with her family? I'm so angry I can hardly see straight. Flyertalk TOS prevent me from even hinting what I really think about the TSA clerks who currently post on this site. |
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15283043)
“Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” The TSA does its very best to make those “American values” available to every person who feels the need to board a commercial aircraft.
|
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 15283206)
Government derives from the consent of the governed. I'm pretty sure I've read that somewhere.
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 15283206)
Having had my aviator brother killed while flying for the United States Navy I think I'm pretty well acquainted with that concept, thank you. And I think I know what he'd say about the current tragic state of the nation he died defending. He'd consider TSA, and its critics-are-traitors line of reasoning, a malignant perversion.
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 15283206)
And considering how many TSOs spend their shifts slugging down Starbucks, screaming at innocent Americans and scoping cute girls for the Nude-o-Scopes while my brother's remains lie in a wrecked airplane at the bottom of the Caribbean Sea, perhaps we'd better not start comparing notes on duty and sacrifice, hmm?
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 15283206)
Don't condescend to your public, sir. And especially not people in my position.
This thread was not supposed to be about you or me. Not about what I believe or what you believe. It was supposed to be about another opinion, someone else’s opinion that I thought might be of interest to a few of the posters here, maybe provoke some reasoned discussion and thoughtful commentary about what “might” be realistic. Thanks awfully for taking us off track.
Originally Posted by sobetraveler
(Post 15283222)
seems to me TSA is spending a lot more time looking at our private parts for weapons, etc., than our government did looking for WMD...
in both cases, they don't seem to find anything. at what point are random searches of homes going to start? if they can't find the goods on air travelers, where will they look next? Oh we find them sir, every minute of every hour of every day. |
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15286592)
Actually, we find on the average of 10 firearms (loaded and unloaded) each week at the checkpoints. We also find clubs, knives, and other types of weapons to me measured only in metric tons. Hundreds of thousands, every month. Hazardous materials? Also measured in tons. Explosives? Not tons certainly, but far more than anyone here might imagine.
Oh we find them sir, every minute of every hour of every day. |
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15286592)
Oh we find them sir, every minute of every hour of every day.
|
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15286592)
Actually, we find on the average of 10 firearms (loaded and unloaded) each week at the checkpoints. We also find clubs, knives, and other types of weapons to me measured only in metric tons. Hundreds of thousands, every month. Hazardous materials? Also measured in tons. Explosives? Not tons certainly, but far more than anyone here might imagine.
Oh we find them sir, every minute of every hour of every day. Why aren't those being used on planes? |
Originally Posted by zitsky
(Post 15286180)
TSORon, I'm one of those folks who sit in the political middle who think you get beaten up too much in this forum. Not that it matters (who am I) but I've even agreed with your opinion in some threads. However, I've lost a lot of respect for you after reading your post and some of the comments in this thread. You may not be the anonymous poster, but by posting their opinion and stating your initial question, you basically suggest you agree that anyone who disagrees with the TSA is automatically supporting terrorists.
I posted it because I thought that the folks here might be able to glean some measure of the truth in an otherwise polarized debate, that they might have a moment of pause and a thoughtful response. Intelligent debate. I honestly should have known better.
Originally Posted by zitsky
(Post 15286180)
I really want to believe that the government and TSA are trying to protect us. I want to believe that they care about the public and are trying to minimize the disruptions to flyers. It just gets harder and harder to believe that when I see a post like yours. If you're a senior person at your airport, you have a responsibility to represent the truth to the public. This forum is all about providing your opinion, but you should understand that calling yourself TSORon means you will be held to a different standard than someone called "bumblebee123".
Now, the original question is not one that I have ever seen in this forum. Not once. Given its uniqueness, and its thought provoking nature, I decided to share it with an audience that might just see it for more than what it is. I have no doubt that is has done just that, you coming out of your lurker-hood as you have proves this. No matter your personal opinions on this matter, it has caused you to comment when you otherwise most likely would have not. This makes the original post worth-while. |
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15281890)
Found at the TSA Blog:
Hmmm. Could this Anon be right? Could it be folks like those who post to TS/S who have given the victory to the terrorists rather than the TSA and the government? |
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15286557)
It’s a part of life in this country that we just have to live with. I know, but you can complain and stamp your feet all week long but its not going to change the fact that the majority of this nations citizens have decided to support the government’s actions.
Originally Posted by TSORon
It seems to me that despite your brothers sacrifice that you didn’t learn the lesson he was teaching to us all.
Originally Posted by TSORon
What makes your position more righteous than mine? What makes your position, your opinion, more valid than mine?
You know, normally dialogue with peoples' political opponents relaxes tensions, promotes enlightenment, and leads to mutual respect. But here I'm feeling the opposite effects. Even Vietnam strategists knew they had to win hearts and minds, not pound people into submission. And TSA wonders why it's now despised by thinking Americans of all poltical persuasions. |
Originally Posted by LuvAirFrance
(Post 15286750)
As with the colonial days, it is the behavior of the government that has turned many against it. I think American bureaucrats are very insular, unwilling to consider that any kind of response to threats is possible other than what they have thought up themselves.
Originally Posted by LuvAirFrance
(Post 15286750)
I wonder if TSO's even travel. I wonder if they get screened abroad and think mockingly "this will never stop the terrorists". As with so much that is done with America, ingenuity does not begin and end at America's borders. All over the world, governments are doing preventive work. Where else but America is it leading to citizen rebellion? You want to blame that on the CITIZENS? And America has one of the most HATED governments in the world. That, too, has something to do with how the people who have chosen government jobs behave.
Isn’t that one of the 7 deadly sins? |
Personally, I believe that they are taking from other agencies what they believe is the best practices and leave the chaff on the side. |
Originally Posted by TSORon
(Post 15286850)
Sorry, that argument just does not hold water. It’s called jealousy.
Isn’t that one of the 7 deadly sins? |
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