Testing the effectiveness of pat-downs - get sent to Gitmo?
Nov 18, 2010 | 5:34 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 8
Testing the effectiveness of pat-downs - get sent to Gitmo?
Imagine this: Some brave soul decides to test TSA's effectiveness by hiding an inert stand-in for explosives (perhaps an amount of play-doh or modeling clay) somewhere on his person.
Maybe start out with it hidden in various orifices and go through the AIT.
Then place it somewhere on his body and go through pat-downs by opting out of AIT.
Finally, go through AIT with it on his body and see if he is caught.
Certainly he will go through enough times where he is not even "randomly" selected to go through AIT.
I imagine it would be devastating to TSA, given their actual red team resports are not shared with the public (though officials are quoted saying their are off the charts).
But the question is what would happen to them if they were caught? It's not illegal to put play-doh up your butt and go through a security check-point, right? Is it illegal to put modeling clay on your taint?
Also, you can only go through the same security check point so many times...could you print up fake boarding passes for different airlines/terminals?
Maybe start out with it hidden in various orifices and go through the AIT.
Then place it somewhere on his body and go through pat-downs by opting out of AIT.
Finally, go through AIT with it on his body and see if he is caught.
Certainly he will go through enough times where he is not even "randomly" selected to go through AIT.
I imagine it would be devastating to TSA, given their actual red team resports are not shared with the public (though officials are quoted saying their are off the charts).
But the question is what would happen to them if they were caught? It's not illegal to put play-doh up your butt and go through a security check-point, right? Is it illegal to put modeling clay on your taint?
Also, you can only go through the same security check point so many times...could you print up fake boarding passes for different airlines/terminals?
Nov 18, 2010 | 5:56 pm
#2
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AS, BA, AA
Posts: 3,670
I can't comment on the legality of your experiment, I think there are some threads floating around with a list of TSA 'crimes' (try the SAN thread).
Don't print fake boarding passes.
If I were planning your experiment, here is how I would handle the boarding pass issue:
Buy a (refundable) ticket for last flight of the evening. Go to the airport at 7 am. If anyone asks why you are early, say you hope to go standby on an earlier flight.
You can spend all day going through security, exiting the sterile area, printing a new boarding pass at a kiosk, and repeating the experiment at a different checkpoint. (This will work best if your airport has interconnected terminals like DFW.)
There is no reason you can't print an AA boarding pass and enter the UA checkpoint. If they want try to send you to a different checkpoint, tell them you got to the airport really early
and you want to shop/eat in this terminal for a while.
This would also work on National Opt-Out Day if you want to maximize your chances of opting out.
If I were planning your experiment, here is how I would handle the boarding pass issue:
Buy a (refundable) ticket for last flight of the evening. Go to the airport at 7 am. If anyone asks why you are early, say you hope to go standby on an earlier flight.
You can spend all day going through security, exiting the sterile area, printing a new boarding pass at a kiosk, and repeating the experiment at a different checkpoint. (This will work best if your airport has interconnected terminals like DFW.)
There is no reason you can't print an AA boarding pass and enter the UA checkpoint. If they want try to send you to a different checkpoint, tell them you got to the airport really early
and you want to shop/eat in this terminal for a while. This would also work on National Opt-Out Day if you want to maximize your chances of opting out.
Last edited by essxjay; Nov 18, 2010 at 8:22 pm Reason: Kindly leave the political commetary for OMNI/PR
Nov 18, 2010 | 8:08 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 8
Don't print fake boarding passes.
Would love someone to weight in on the legality of smuggling modeling clay. My worry is that TSA would classify that as interfering with security proceedings.
Nov 18, 2010 | 8:16 pm
#4
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AS, BA, AA
Posts: 3,670
TSA Sanction Guidelines
...
3. Other Security Violations by Individuals or Persons
A. Attempt to circumvent a security system, measure, or procedure by the artful concealment of a non-explosive liquid, aerosol, or gel (other than those permitted) $100-$200
B. Interference with screening
i. Including physical contact $1,500-$5,000
ii. Non-physical interference $500-$1,500
iii. False threats $1,000-$2,000
C. Entering sterile area without submitting to screening $1,000-$3,000
D. Tampering or interfering with, compromising, modifying,
attempting to circumvent, or causing a person to tamper or
interfere with, compromise, modify or attempt to circumvent any
security system, measure, or procedure. Includes the artful
concealment of prohibited items (except for those prohibited
items covered by section III.A., above) $1,500-$6,000
E. Entering or being present within a secured area, AOA, SIDA,
or sterile area without complying with the systems, measures,
or procedures being applied to control access to, or presence or
movement in, such areas $500-$3,000
F. Improper use of airport access medium $500-$3,000
G. Fraud and intentional falsification $2,500-$6,000 + Criminal Referral
H. Failure to allow inspection of airman certificate, authorization,
FAA license $1,000-$3,000
*Violations not listed above are subject to the regulatory civil penalty maximum of $11,000.
3. Other Security Violations by Individuals or Persons
A. Attempt to circumvent a security system, measure, or procedure by the artful concealment of a non-explosive liquid, aerosol, or gel (other than those permitted) $100-$200
B. Interference with screening
i. Including physical contact $1,500-$5,000
ii. Non-physical interference $500-$1,500
iii. False threats $1,000-$2,000
C. Entering sterile area without submitting to screening $1,000-$3,000
D. Tampering or interfering with, compromising, modifying,
attempting to circumvent, or causing a person to tamper or
interfere with, compromise, modify or attempt to circumvent any
security system, measure, or procedure. Includes the artful
concealment of prohibited items (except for those prohibited
items covered by section III.A., above) $1,500-$6,000
E. Entering or being present within a secured area, AOA, SIDA,
or sterile area without complying with the systems, measures,
or procedures being applied to control access to, or presence or
movement in, such areas $500-$3,000
F. Improper use of airport access medium $500-$3,000
G. Fraud and intentional falsification $2,500-$6,000 + Criminal Referral
H. Failure to allow inspection of airman certificate, authorization,
FAA license $1,000-$3,000
*Violations not listed above are subject to the regulatory civil penalty maximum of $11,000.
Nov 18, 2010 | 8:24 pm
#5
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15
bad idea
I can't say I'd recommend trying to "red-team" the TSA on your own. Gitmo is unlikely, but arrest and no-fly status is pretty probable.
Nov 18, 2010 | 8:34 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 8
TSA Sanction Guidelines
Perhaps it would be considered "Interference with Screening: False Threats". Thats pretty damn vague though.
Last edited by Bbatchelder; Nov 18, 2010 at 8:40 pm
Nov 18, 2010 | 8:41 pm
#8
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Plat, WN A-List, Marriot Gold, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 376
Imagine this: Some brave soul decides to test TSA's effectiveness by hiding an inert stand-in for explosives (perhaps an amount of play-doh or modeling clay) somewhere on his person.
Maybe start out with it hidden in various orifices and go through the AIT.
Then place it somewhere on his body and go through pat-downs by opting out of AIT.
Finally, go through AIT with it on his body and see if he is caught.
Certainly he will go through enough times where he is not even "randomly" selected to go through AIT.
I imagine it would be devastating to TSA, given their actual red team resports are not shared with the public (though officials are quoted saying their are off the charts).
But the question is what would happen to them if they were caught? It's not illegal to put play-doh up your butt and go through a security check-point, right? Is it illegal to put modeling clay on your taint?
Also, you can only go through the same security check point so many times...could you print up fake boarding passes for different airlines/terminals?
Maybe start out with it hidden in various orifices and go through the AIT.
Then place it somewhere on his body and go through pat-downs by opting out of AIT.
Finally, go through AIT with it on his body and see if he is caught.
Certainly he will go through enough times where he is not even "randomly" selected to go through AIT.
I imagine it would be devastating to TSA, given their actual red team resports are not shared with the public (though officials are quoted saying their are off the charts).
But the question is what would happen to them if they were caught? It's not illegal to put play-doh up your butt and go through a security check-point, right? Is it illegal to put modeling clay on your taint?
Also, you can only go through the same security check point so many times...could you print up fake boarding passes for different airlines/terminals?
You should be thrown it Gitmo just for posting that.
HP
Nov 18, 2010 | 9:19 pm
#10
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AS, BA, AA
Posts: 3,670
Yeah - there's really no need to probe the effectiveness of the naked scanners since Al Qaeda already knows about body cavities. 
I thought the idea of going through security multiple times might be useful on NOOD.
I thought the idea of going through security multiple times might be useful on NOOD.