what should be done
#1
Original Poster
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: source of weird and eccentric ideas
Posts: 40,054
what should be done
The federal government should be removed from any screening operations.
The TSA should be abolished.
Any security screening should be the responsibility of the vendors. The airlines and the customers can choose the level of security they want.
The current to-do about gropes and scopes is beside the point. The real point is federal government searching your person when you want to fly.
The "implied consent" doctrine can be used to justify just about anything. For example, when you step out of your house, you could be construed to give "implied consent" to being searched. There is no end to this.
Also, tracking of passengers should stop. Anonymous travel should be restored. We need to be protected against the over-reaching government and government should be prohibited from recording any details of travel.
The TSA should be abolished.
Any security screening should be the responsibility of the vendors. The airlines and the customers can choose the level of security they want.
The current to-do about gropes and scopes is beside the point. The real point is federal government searching your person when you want to fly.
The "implied consent" doctrine can be used to justify just about anything. For example, when you step out of your house, you could be construed to give "implied consent" to being searched. There is no end to this.
Also, tracking of passengers should stop. Anonymous travel should be restored. We need to be protected against the over-reaching government and government should be prohibited from recording any details of travel.
#2
Founder of FlyerTalk
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 6,540
I certainly understand where you are coming from in this situation, but the challenge I see with this level of security is who accepts blame for the problems that may occur from a varying level as you say? For instance, in the current example of 9/11, would this have been United or American's fault as a vendor? The problem as i see it is that in this somewhat blame-necessary environment, this solution certainly could present problems. Anyway, interested in your thoughts in this area. Thanks.
#4
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,034
I certainly understand where you are coming from in this situation, but the challenge I see with this level of security is who accepts blame for the problems that may occur from a varying level as you say? For instance, in the current example of 9/11, would this have been United or American's fault as a vendor? The problem as i see it is that in this somewhat blame-necessary environment, this solution certainly could present problems. Anyway, interested in your thoughts in this area. Thanks.
However, if I plane were to fall out of the sky via terrorism, an airline should not simply point at the TSA. At some point, depending on the circumstance, fingers would be pointed at anyone involved with the aircraft in question, down to the subcontracted dude who filled the wings with fuel.
Inevitably, the airlines would point the finger at the TSA, and the TSA will point at the airline.
It doesn't matter who executes security at the airport, like you said, this is a blame society, and absolutely no one would take responsibility.
In the end, the passengers are the losers. Again.
#5
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What to do with the TSA short term-
1. Full accountability of TSA employees, with levels of discipline up to and including termination.
2. Initiate a focus on customer service training for screeners, instead of barking and asking Do you want to fly today? The fact that the TSA has publicly stated that customer service is not a priority in its Engage! training is appalling.
3. End the War on Liquids. The exemptions make it pointless, and even if there was such a Magic Liquid that could be used to create a bomb airside without laboratory conditions if you just had enough of it, just send ten guys through the checkpoint with their Kippie Bags and combine it airside.
4. End the Shoe Carnival. The X-Ray machine cannot detect explosives, period.
5. Eliminate the gate screenings. The fact that this is being done in MCI, where each gate area pretty much has its own checkpoint to start with, is proof that this is nothing more than security theatre and workfare.
6. Get rid of the No Fly List. Theres no effective means of redress or oversight how the list is managed. If the people on these lists are so dangerous, arrest them.
7. Stop the ID checks. The TSA has no need to know who I am or where Im flying. This is nothing more than revenue protection on behalf of the airlines. The thought that I must present my papers to travel within the border of my own country is disgusting.
8. Stop using the checkpoint as a dragnet. College kids with a fake IDs, illegal aliens, or some common criminal wanted on a drug charge somewhere are not a threat to commercial aviation. We have other government agencies tasked for this.
9. Kill LASP dead in its tracks. There is no reason whatsoever the TSA should encroach on General Aviation. Personal Liberties For the first time, the TSAs regulatory activities would be extended to personal GA aircraft, historic and vintage aircraft, and operators, passengers, and pilots flying for personal and business use. As such, the LASP is a radical departure from anything the TSA has enacted to date. It would, in effect, require governmental review and authority before you could operate your own personal vehicle.
10. End the mission creep. No more TSA appearances at sporting events, bus and train stations, or highways. Let the real law enforcement professionals tasked with these venues handle things without interference from the TSA.
11. The junk science SPOT program gets the boot.
12. Stop the use and deployment of Nude-O-Scopes. They don't see into body cavities or detect explosives, are an intrusion into privacy and needlessly add to cumulative lifetime radiation doses. All that is needed is Walk Through Metal Detectors, x-ray of bags, and Explosive Trace Detection / Explosive Trace Portals (puffers) at the checkpoint.
13. The wearing of metal LEO style badges is stopped immediately, and replaced with the screeners name and identification number that is plainly visible.
14. Eliminate theatrics like the TSA Honor Guard. There is no need for screeners to dress up in silly costumes and parade around.
15. Stop any consideration of having screeners armed with firearms, or having any LEO powers.
What to do with the TSA long term-
The TSA should become a part of the DOT. Actual screening should be done by private contractors with oversight by the DOT or FAA. Funny how we never heard the constant stories of mistreatment and harassment of PAX, organized rings of theft and general thuggery when this was being done by private sector firms.
1. Full accountability of TSA employees, with levels of discipline up to and including termination.
2. Initiate a focus on customer service training for screeners, instead of barking and asking Do you want to fly today? The fact that the TSA has publicly stated that customer service is not a priority in its Engage! training is appalling.
3. End the War on Liquids. The exemptions make it pointless, and even if there was such a Magic Liquid that could be used to create a bomb airside without laboratory conditions if you just had enough of it, just send ten guys through the checkpoint with their Kippie Bags and combine it airside.
4. End the Shoe Carnival. The X-Ray machine cannot detect explosives, period.
5. Eliminate the gate screenings. The fact that this is being done in MCI, where each gate area pretty much has its own checkpoint to start with, is proof that this is nothing more than security theatre and workfare.
6. Get rid of the No Fly List. Theres no effective means of redress or oversight how the list is managed. If the people on these lists are so dangerous, arrest them.
7. Stop the ID checks. The TSA has no need to know who I am or where Im flying. This is nothing more than revenue protection on behalf of the airlines. The thought that I must present my papers to travel within the border of my own country is disgusting.
8. Stop using the checkpoint as a dragnet. College kids with a fake IDs, illegal aliens, or some common criminal wanted on a drug charge somewhere are not a threat to commercial aviation. We have other government agencies tasked for this.
9. Kill LASP dead in its tracks. There is no reason whatsoever the TSA should encroach on General Aviation. Personal Liberties For the first time, the TSAs regulatory activities would be extended to personal GA aircraft, historic and vintage aircraft, and operators, passengers, and pilots flying for personal and business use. As such, the LASP is a radical departure from anything the TSA has enacted to date. It would, in effect, require governmental review and authority before you could operate your own personal vehicle.
10. End the mission creep. No more TSA appearances at sporting events, bus and train stations, or highways. Let the real law enforcement professionals tasked with these venues handle things without interference from the TSA.
11. The junk science SPOT program gets the boot.
12. Stop the use and deployment of Nude-O-Scopes. They don't see into body cavities or detect explosives, are an intrusion into privacy and needlessly add to cumulative lifetime radiation doses. All that is needed is Walk Through Metal Detectors, x-ray of bags, and Explosive Trace Detection / Explosive Trace Portals (puffers) at the checkpoint.
13. The wearing of metal LEO style badges is stopped immediately, and replaced with the screeners name and identification number that is plainly visible.
14. Eliminate theatrics like the TSA Honor Guard. There is no need for screeners to dress up in silly costumes and parade around.
15. Stop any consideration of having screeners armed with firearms, or having any LEO powers.
What to do with the TSA long term-
The TSA should become a part of the DOT. Actual screening should be done by private contractors with oversight by the DOT or FAA. Funny how we never heard the constant stories of mistreatment and harassment of PAX, organized rings of theft and general thuggery when this was being done by private sector firms.
#6
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 187
Letting an airline establish its own safety/security safeguards sounds good in practice, but how far do you take it? There are minimum requirements in all aspects of aviation safety (passenger screening, aircraft maintenance, crew training, cabin design, in-flight procedures)... are you sure you want the market to drive those standards?
I don't mind there being regulations/standards for airport security, but they should be reasonable and effective - regardless of who they are carried out by.
I don't mind there being regulations/standards for airport security, but they should be reasonable and effective - regardless of who they are carried out by.

