Opt out of pat down - thought experiment
#16




Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,449
"Yes, my whole body. I just spent a week on a nude beach."
#17
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: Disgruntled HON**, Indifferent EK Gold, skeptical BA Silver
Posts: 1,734
Will they choose to look at him in the nude? Or will he not be able to fly.
#18
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: PEK
Programs: UA Premier Silver, SPG Gold
Posts: 128
#19
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: United
Posts: 2,710
They continue to pat down women that are sobbing from the humiliation. I don't think they care about your (hypothetical) sunburn.
#20




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: North of DFW
Programs: AA PLT, HH Gold, TSA Disparager Gold, going for Platnium
Posts: 1,535
I know cops. I'm very close with some.
That said, they're still idiots... lovable idiots
Stop this GAY, "LEO," acronym: just say COPS!!!
God, what a nation of tools we've become... what a fking joke.
TSO's are just traitors/gov't welfare junkies.
edit: A friend of mine from city college became a TSO, though: nice guy!
That said, they're still idiots... lovable idiots

Stop this GAY, "LEO," acronym: just say COPS!!!
God, what a nation of tools we've become... what a fking joke.
TSO's are just traitors/gov't welfare junkies.
edit: A friend of mine from city college became a TSO, though: nice guy!

Its not gay its a appropriate term because not all LEOs are cops(aka normal police officer) some maybe agents, special agents, Detectives, Troopers, marshals and so on.
#21
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,972
From what I'm hearing, the crux is that the TSA must clear you before you can travel, but they refuse to clear you without conducting a warrantless search. So they put you in a position where you must either surrender your 4th Amendment rights or you cannot complete interstate travel without undue burden.
#22
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
I also believe this strategy of using the courts will turn out very, very bad. Historically, they have pretty much allowed all extensions of administrative search powers for which the various government entities have asked.
Moving public opinion will be faster and more effective. And messy.
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,343
In honor of national opt out day, I am more than willing to buy an airline ticket and opt out of an X-ray scan, but I don't really want to get groped. So what would happen if I also refused a pat down?
I guess in a nutshell, my question is, if someone wanted to make a 4th Amendment test case, what would be the script?
Please no smurf and thug comments! I know there are good and bad people in the TSA, but I'm really interested in the Constitutional/legal aspects. I know there is a chance of some TSO or cop being an a$$hole. But assuming that everyone is polite and professional, and follows official (even if secret) TSA procedures, what is the most likely script for what would happen?
If this has been discussed on another website or thread, I would appreciate a link. I would LOVE it if some of our resident TSA employees could shed some light on the subject.
Once again, I am looking for thoughtful discussion of creating a test case: legal issues and Constitutional rights, not a TSA-bashing thread.
I guess in a nutshell, my question is, if someone wanted to make a 4th Amendment test case, what would be the script?
Please no smurf and thug comments! I know there are good and bad people in the TSA, but I'm really interested in the Constitutional/legal aspects. I know there is a chance of some TSO or cop being an a$$hole. But assuming that everyone is polite and professional, and follows official (even if secret) TSA procedures, what is the most likely script for what would happen?
- Would I have committed any crimes?
- At what point is TSA allowed to detain me?
- Can they take legal action against me or physically restrain me?
- Can I ask for a lawyer?
- What types of ID can they require me to provide?
If this has been discussed on another website or thread, I would appreciate a link. I would LOVE it if some of our resident TSA employees could shed some light on the subject.
Once again, I am looking for thoughtful discussion of creating a test case: legal issues and Constitutional rights, not a TSA-bashing thread.
I offer some advice (not legal by any stretch of the imagination -- just "mission planning" advice):
1. In preparation for a confrontation with an airport cop, bring no other ID than the one you use for Blacklight Bob (ID Checker). Ideally, use a passport if you have one because it doesn't have your home address or any other identifying details. Erase the "emergency contact" info from your passport (if it's filled in) so they can't use that information against you. FYI, you can use your passport as an ID for domestic travel -- may of us do this routinely.
2. It would be great if you could bring a second person who could video record the encounter. There are always friends "seeing off" friends at or near a checkpoint. Just ask your friend to blend in and they should be OK.
3. Take a minimal amount of stuff through the checkpoint with you. Don't bring a wallet with anything critical in it -- DL, credit cards -- anything they could use to identify you beyond your passport. If the friend in #2 drove to the airport, you wouldn't even need a set of keys.
4. Keep aware of the information you have with you: passport, boarding pass. Do not answer any questions outside the bounds of the information you already have revealed.
5. Do not answer the question that wasn't asked. Absolutely do not admit that you are protesting the strip search/frisking. Do not admit to anything beyond what's on your ID and boarding pass. Do not admit that a friend is taping the incident. Do not admit you are on FT or that (maybe) you will post this on the internet.
6. Closely tied to #5, don't lie. This is infinitely worse than not answering questions. Not answering questions is your right. Lying isn't. Remember, however, that a cop can lie all that he/she wants.
7. Follow through by requesting a complaint form and/or take one with you. They will expect you to do this. If you don't, they might suspect that they have been "had."
Ultimately, this isn't hard. But, you must be mentally prepared, mentally tough, and keep your wits about you to remember to not deviate from the plan. You're going in with the upper hand and it's important that you keep on the offensive.
#25



Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: gggrrrovvveee (ORD)
Programs: UA Pt, Marriott Ti, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 6,095
What would happen if I just stripped down to my skivvies and opted out? Would I still need a pat down? My boxer briefs are pretty form-fitting. Should I also turn my head and cough if they still insist on cupping me down there?
I'm actually serious about both (stripping and coughing). I can't imagine I'd get cited for indecent exposure, as I wouldn't be exposing anything indecent (not any more than at a pool or beach, anyway).
Or how about a woman stripping down to a sheer bra and thong? (hubba hubba, btw) Would she still be required to be touched at all?
I'm actually serious about both (stripping and coughing). I can't imagine I'd get cited for indecent exposure, as I wouldn't be exposing anything indecent (not any more than at a pool or beach, anyway).
Or how about a woman stripping down to a sheer bra and thong? (hubba hubba, btw) Would she still be required to be touched at all?

