TSO "rubbing" my back!
Oct 2, 2010, 10:34 am
#76
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,745
Lets hear from the TSO’s who post here on what is the policy on unannounced pat downs, or is that to SSI.
All one of these TSO’s has to do is press someone’s back who has back problems in the wrong place and they can send that person right to the hospital, and followed up by a major lawsuit
In the full pat downs, they are required to ask you if you have any sensitive areas, but now they can sneak up on you and grope you without any warning
Also I agree about the gloves.
So lets hear from the TSO’s on this one.
Mr. Elliott
All one of these TSO’s has to do is press someone’s back who has back problems in the wrong place and they can send that person right to the hospital, and followed up by a major lawsuit
In the full pat downs, they are required to ask you if you have any sensitive areas, but now they can sneak up on you and grope you without any warning
Also I agree about the gloves.
So lets hear from the TSO’s on this one.
Mr. Elliott
I believe TSA is wrong on the basic question of doing this at all. IMO, it's not acceptable to touch and "rub" anyone/everyone or rub them anywhere they please, WITHOUT CAUSE, in order to travel. We have rights, including "to be secure in one's person" and "against unreasonable searches" and "to move freely" and "to enjoy privacy in all matters in which the rights of others are not violated" (among others). The excessive use of "and" is intentional. This is not pick-a-rights day; we get them all. Without reasonable suspicion, invasive searches of people, for no other reason than they want to move around, is a gross overreach.
Great news. But before I get all weepy, please tell me in a constitutional/legal sense, what is the limit*, who gets to decide the limit, and who oversees them?
* - Since the limit seems to change every week, where does it end?
You are not only suggesting that everyone must submit to any search TSA dreams up simply to travel, but that they don't need to consent. Legally speaking, how is this different than strip searching and "rubber-gloving" everyone who happens to drive over a bridge to New York? [
]Of course, once you're on the bridge, it's too late to go back. You must be guilty of something. Doesn't matter, you have already consented, by choosing to be a traveling American, to whatever search we deem necessary for security.[/]
]Of course, once you're on the bridge, it's too late to go back. You must be guilty of something. Doesn't matter, you have already consented, by choosing to be a traveling American, to whatever search we deem necessary for security.[/]
At a minimum, proper detailed warnings, consent, and an alternative* is necessary. Something like "If you want to get through security, I need to pat you down; because the metal detector went off; please raise your arms. Do you understand and agree." would be a good start. I would give you that consent is implied if the person raised his/her arms after hearing this. This is all very different than "I started rubbing you because you walked into an airport".
* - it's not really consent if you don't have the choice to leave (e.g., be searched or be arrested), is it?
Unless there is sufficient cause for a LEO to detain* someone (or situation such as paramedics would face), searching without consent is NOT acceptable. An airport is not some magic land where the constitution doesn't apply.
* - LEOs can do this, TSOs cannot. There's a reason. It has something to do with the law. The law has something to do with the Constitution. It's kinda cool how this is SUPPOSED to work.
Now please pardon me while I do a double back-flip-McTwisty off my soap box.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Oct 2, 2010 at 5:43 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
Oct 2, 2010, 10:46 am
#77
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Oct 2, 2010, 10:55 am
#78
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: California. USA
Posts: 1,404
We are all different. Different back grounds and up bringing. Coming a lot of times from different cultures.
Some think this is very invaisive others thinks is for security and ok.
It is not up to the goverment to decided to what you think is invaisve and/or not.
They ( the law makers) dont have it done to them and (I guess) not their families.
If I think something is invsisive then it is invaisive. Dont tell me it is not.
Like I said before no wonder that USA is loosing tourists. It is all over the news papers in Europe how USA treats their tourists. And most people are angry and very offended.
I have more respect for my self than wanted to be groped by strangers.
Yes TSA and co. is strangers to me. I didnt sign up for it.
I have also notcied that the better shape your are in the more you get screanned.
And the ruder they get to you.
Also I do think that TSA and co. also have to remember that a lot of people dont speak english and/or have limited knowledge of the language.
Some think this is very invaisive others thinks is for security and ok.
It is not up to the goverment to decided to what you think is invaisve and/or not.
They ( the law makers) dont have it done to them and (I guess) not their families.
If I think something is invsisive then it is invaisive. Dont tell me it is not.
Like I said before no wonder that USA is loosing tourists. It is all over the news papers in Europe how USA treats their tourists. And most people are angry and very offended.
I have more respect for my self than wanted to be groped by strangers.
Yes TSA and co. is strangers to me. I didnt sign up for it.
I have also notcied that the better shape your are in the more you get screanned.
And the ruder they get to you.
Also I do think that TSA and co. also have to remember that a lot of people dont speak english and/or have limited knowledge of the language.
Oct 2, 2010, 11:08 am
#79
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Oct 2, 2010, 12:38 pm
#80
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: LAS
Posts: 1,279
Congrats, you have two of the dumbest things I've ever read in a single post.
So I'm free to drive, but not fly? I must have missed the airplane exclusion in the Constitution. Shocking to know my constitutional rights don't exist at the airport.
So TSA (the government) can do anything it wants and the Constitution doesn't apply? That explains the TSA attitude. The 4th amendment is specifically about the government doing those things. That is why we have a Constitution.
Really? Do vehicles packed with explosives exist in your world? I'll give a slight benefit of the doubt by assuming your mean somebody taking over the vehicle. If this is the case, feeling my crotch does nothing to keep me out of the cockpit.
Nope. The example I listed is about detaining AND the physical/invasive searching of a person without their consent or a warrant (little thing called due process). There are very limited exceptions for who can do both. If you think TSA has that legal authority, please provide evidence to support your claim.
So TSA (the government) can do anything it wants and the Constitution doesn't apply? That explains the TSA attitude. The 4th amendment is specifically about the government doing those things. That is why we have a Constitution.
Nope. The example I listed is about detaining AND the physical/invasive searching of a person without their consent or a warrant (little thing called due process). There are very limited exceptions for who can do both. If you think TSA has that legal authority, please provide evidence to support your claim.
Oct 2, 2010, 12:56 pm
#81
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The victims do not have to be IN the transportation means. Start with a Ryder truck that can haul 5000 pounds. Google "Oklahoma City" to find out the rest.
Oct 2, 2010, 1:30 pm
#82
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: LAS
Posts: 1,279
The victims do not have to be IN the transportation means. Start with a Ryder truck that can haul 5000 pounds. Google "Oklahoma City" to find out the rest.
Oct 3, 2010, 7:13 am
#83
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,726
One of these days TSA will discover that the primary WMD is called a brain, and everyone but them has one.
Oct 3, 2010, 11:18 am
#84
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: LAS
Posts: 1,279
IMO, the primary WMD is the government scaring apathetic/uninformed citizens to justify their power grabbing. The liberties we've already given up for the false sense of security is saddening. The massive economic and emotional health impact, that we have imposed on ourselves, is worse than the terrorists could ever accomplish.
Oct 3, 2010, 4:53 pm
#85
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,702
We are all different. Different back grounds and up bringing. Coming a lot of times from different cultures.
Some think this is very invaisive others thinks is for security and ok.
It is not up to the goverment to decided to what you think is invaisve and/or not.
They ( the law makers) dont have it done to them and (I guess) not their families.
If I think something is invsisive then it is invaisive. Dont tell me it is not.
Like I said before no wonder that USA is loosing tourists. It is all over the news papers in Europe how USA treats their tourists. And most people are angry and very offended.
I have more respect for my self than wanted to be groped by strangers.
Yes TSA and co. is strangers to me. I didnt sign up for it.
I have also notcied that the better shape your are in the more you get screanned.
And the ruder they get to you.
Also I do think that TSA and co. also have to remember that a lot of people dont speak english and/or have limited knowledge of the language.
Some think this is very invaisive others thinks is for security and ok.
It is not up to the goverment to decided to what you think is invaisve and/or not.
They ( the law makers) dont have it done to them and (I guess) not their families.
If I think something is invsisive then it is invaisive. Dont tell me it is not.
Like I said before no wonder that USA is loosing tourists. It is all over the news papers in Europe how USA treats their tourists. And most people are angry and very offended.
I have more respect for my self than wanted to be groped by strangers.
Yes TSA and co. is strangers to me. I didnt sign up for it.
I have also notcied that the better shape your are in the more you get screanned.
And the ruder they get to you.
Also I do think that TSA and co. also have to remember that a lot of people dont speak english and/or have limited knowledge of the language.
). And yes, their families are screened, too. There are very few exceptions when our law makers and their familes are not screened.
Oct 3, 2010, 5:10 pm
#86
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Oct 3, 2010, 5:13 pm
#87
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Only want to comment on one thing you said: almost exclusively the law makers are screened. I have personally screened members of both the House and Senate. Heck I even screened Karl Rove while he was still with Bush (for some reason he kept coming to texas ). And yes, their families are screened, too. There are very few exceptions when our law makers and their familes are not screened.
). And yes, their families are screened, too. There are very few exceptions when our law makers and their familes are not screened.
Oct 3, 2010, 5:32 pm
#88
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,702
Hmm a little sarcasm seems to be lost on you. But, actually, when I screened him he was leaving Crawford from SAT, maybe had a meeting in San Antonio. How do I know he was leaving Crawford, because I asked, and he answered (told him if he didnt answer me he wouldn't fly today!!).
And yes, I actually do know he is from Texas, I was sort of making a sarcastic joke in my above post. Just so we are clear.
And yes, I actually do know he is from Texas, I was sort of making a sarcastic joke in my above post. Just so we are clear.
Oct 3, 2010, 6:26 pm
#89
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: California. USA
Posts: 1,404
Only want to comment on one thing you said: almost exclusively the law makers are screened. I have personally screened members of both the House and Senate. Heck I even screened Karl Rove while he was still with Bush (for some reason he kept coming to texas ). And yes, their families are screened, too. There are very few exceptions when our law makers and their familes are not screened.
). And yes, their families are screened, too. There are very few exceptions when our law makers and their familes are not screened.You are going to tell me that you put leaders of countries and members of their government in the nude machines? And that you would grope them?
Well if that doesnt start problems between countries I don know what would.
Oct 4, 2010, 6:26 am
#90
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