22" Rollerboard carry-ons & TSA agents
Sep 19, 2010, 6:44 pm
#76
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SYD (perenially), GVA (not in a long time)
Programs: QF PS, EK-Gold, Security Theatre Critic
Posts: 6,792
...Isn't the Safety and Security of the planes and airport the TSA mission?
What this says to me is that because TSA can't find Terrorists or Bombs or weapons they are going to do "busy" work by telling travellers that their bag is too big or they have too many carry ons. I can only guess that this will make the TSO feel like they are being "productive".
What this says to me is that because TSA can't find Terrorists or Bombs or weapons they are going to do "busy" work by telling travellers that their bag is too big or they have too many carry ons. I can only guess that this will make the TSO feel like they are being "productive".
At what point does "this is not part of our core mission" take over from "oh, well, I'm here anyway and they asked me to do this, and I'm bored so I may as well"??
Oct 20, 2010, 2:32 pm
#77
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 201
I just got more info, so this is just a follow up on an old post.
Prohibited items are not considered SSI, and even if it were, the flying public has a valid "Need to Know™" on what they may/may not bring with them through security. Otherwise, this list would be a serious breach of security: Prohibited Item List. Even though it says, "The prohibited items list is not intended to be all-inclusive and is updated as necessary. To ensure travelers' security, Transportation Security Officers (TSOs) may determine that an item not on the Prohibited Items List is prohibited.", the intent of that statement is meant to cover less-common items. A thorough all-inclusive list would be thousands of pages long, so only the most frequently encountered items were listed. Something as common as carry-on luggage would have been placed on this list, if certain dimensions were truly disallowed.
The size of carry-on luggage is not a security concern. It is an airline policy. Security Directives are usually used as emergency orders that have to be carried out immediately as a direct response to threats posed to aviation security. There were Security Directives on lighters, liquids, and shoes, but nothing on carry-on luggage that are an inch too wide.
If this were a TSA Directive, it would be classified as Management Directive. A list of every Management Directive, including those that have been rescinded/expired, is listed on iShare. There is no TSA MD on carry-on dimensions. My friend the TSM asked her DAFSD-Screening Operations, and verified that not even a LINC message exists on the subject.
US vs. Aukai ended the "Implied Consent" and ushered in the "Administrative Search" for TSA. Administrative Searches are inspections or searches carried out under a regulatory or statutory scheme especially in public or commercial premises to enforce compliance with regulations or laws pertaining to health, safety, or security.
They are narrow in scope and have clearly defined legal limitations. TSA's authority falls under Administrative Searches, and they are limited to looking for threats to aviation security. For example: if a screener were to find a bag of drugs on someone, and testified that he looked in someone's purse solely because the person had track marks on her arm and he had a hunch she was smuggling drugs...the evidence would be inadmissible and the case would be thrown out. Drugs do not pose a threat to aviation, making the basis for that search illegal. However, if the same screener were stumble upon the drugs while officially in the course of his duties (looking for threats to aviation security), it would be allowed.
Until the day comes along when carry-on bags that are an inch too thick pose a direct threat to aviation security, TSA does not enforce bag size limitations, and they do not have the authority even if they wanted to. (With the exception of bags that are so big that they can't be screened using existing standard checkpoint equipment)
In summation- TSA enforcing bag sizes at the checkpoint is not a Standard Operating Procedure; is not a written regulation; and is not Security Directive, Management Directive, or LINC Message. It doesn't even have anything to do with preventing threats to aviation security. And out of all the TSA employees who have read this thread, only SATTSO claims it's a rule. A rule based on word-of-mouth and a guy in a suit waving around a piece of paper that no other airport seems to have.
Prohibited items are not considered SSI, and even if it were, the flying public has a valid "Need to Know™" on what they may/may not bring with them through security. Otherwise, this list would be a serious breach of security: Prohibited Item List. Even though it says, "The prohibited items list is not intended to be all-inclusive and is updated as necessary. To ensure travelers' security, Transportation Security Officers (TSOs) may determine that an item not on the Prohibited Items List is prohibited.", the intent of that statement is meant to cover less-common items. A thorough all-inclusive list would be thousands of pages long, so only the most frequently encountered items were listed. Something as common as carry-on luggage would have been placed on this list, if certain dimensions were truly disallowed.
If this were a TSA Directive, it would be classified as Management Directive. A list of every Management Directive, including those that have been rescinded/expired, is listed on iShare. There is no TSA MD on carry-on dimensions. My friend the TSM asked her DAFSD-Screening Operations, and verified that not even a LINC message exists on the subject.
They are narrow in scope and have clearly defined legal limitations. TSA's authority falls under Administrative Searches, and they are limited to looking for threats to aviation security. For example: if a screener were to find a bag of drugs on someone, and testified that he looked in someone's purse solely because the person had track marks on her arm and he had a hunch she was smuggling drugs...the evidence would be inadmissible and the case would be thrown out. Drugs do not pose a threat to aviation, making the basis for that search illegal. However, if the same screener were stumble upon the drugs while officially in the course of his duties (looking for threats to aviation security), it would be allowed.
Until the day comes along when carry-on bags that are an inch too thick pose a direct threat to aviation security, TSA does not enforce bag size limitations, and they do not have the authority even if they wanted to. (With the exception of bags that are so big that they can't be screened using existing standard checkpoint equipment)
In summation- TSA enforcing bag sizes at the checkpoint is not a Standard Operating Procedure; is not a written regulation; and is not Security Directive, Management Directive, or LINC Message. It doesn't even have anything to do with preventing threats to aviation security. And out of all the TSA employees who have read this thread, only SATTSO claims it's a rule. A rule based on word-of-mouth and a guy in a suit waving around a piece of paper that no other airport seems to have.