Community
Wiki Posts
Search

AJC Op Ed: TSA Clearance a Cloudy Process

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 30, 2010 | 8:16 am
  #1  
Original Poster
FlyerTalk Evangelist
20 Countries Visited
1M
40 Nights
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Marriott or Hilton hot tub with a big drink <glub> Beverage: To-Go Bag DYKWIA:SSSS /rolleyes ☈ Date Night:Costco
Programs: Sea Shell Lounge Platinum, TSA Pre✓ Refusnik Diamond, PWP Gold, FT subset of the subset
Posts: 12,523
Post AJC Op Ed: TSA Clearance a Cloudy Process

TSA clearance a cloudy process

By Azadeh Shahshahani
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
7-29-10

I first met Adnan Tikvesa back in December when I spoke at a symposium on human rights and Islam at the Al-Farooq mosque in Atlanta.

The focus of my talk was the fundamental rights and liberties enshrined in the U.S. Constitution, including every persons right to due process of law.

I was on my way out when I saw a young man, looking apprehensive, approach me and ask that I take a look at the document in his hand. It was a letter he had received from the Transportation Security Administration.

Adnan is a 25-year-old resident of Atlanta and an American citizen since 2003. He first arrived in America in 1994 as a 9-year-old refugee fleeing the ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Mostar, a city in the former Yugoslavia.

Adnan has worked for Delta since October 2004. He was granted clearance in November 2004 for access to the secured areas of Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport. His security clearance was renewed in 2006 and again in 2008.

Adnan is part of a family that is proud to work for various employers in the Atlanta airport: his father works for Delta and his mother works for Delta Global Services; they both hold the security clearance. His sister works for the airport customer service.

Adnan has never been convicted of, or even charged with, any crime. He is well-respected by his co-workers and supervisors for the quality of his work.

So why was it that on Nov. 12, 2009, TSA suddenly decided to suspend Adnans security clearance without telling him why? To this day, no one knows.


Click through for the rest
N965VJ is offline  
Old Jul 30, 2010 | 9:00 am
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
10 Countries Visited500k30 Nights20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
TSA should compensate him for the 8 months of lost wages due to their stupidity.
Superguy is offline  
Old Jul 30, 2010 | 9:14 am
  #3  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
20 Countries Visited
500k
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,986
Originally Posted by Superguy
TSA should compensate him for the 8 months of lost wages due to their stupidity.
If there is no valid reason for suspension then not only should lost wages be paid but also some amount for the abuse handed out by TSA.

If these people had to put their personal resources on the line when making decisions I bet they would take more care.
Boggie Dog is offline  
Old Jul 30, 2010 | 9:38 am
  #4  
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: DCA / WAS
Programs: DL 2+ million/PM, YX, Marriott Plt, *wood gold, HHonors, CO Plt, UA, AA EXP, WN, AGR
Posts: 9,386
Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
If there is no valid reason for suspension then not only should lost wages be paid but also some amount for the abuse handed out by TSA.

If these people had to put their personal resources on the line when making decisions I bet they would take more care.
Agree. Make them accountable.
Global_Hi_Flyer is offline  
Old Jul 30, 2010 | 10:24 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SE Asia
Posts: 647
Despicable actions by despicable people at a despicable agency.

SHUT IT DOWN!!
bluenotesro is offline  
Old Jul 30, 2010 | 11:06 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
If these people had to put their personal resources on the line when making decisions I bet they would take more care.
Be careful; this type of argument can be used both ways. There are some who would argue that "these people" should be held personally accountable when someone who shouldn't have a security clearance gets one, and later causes a legitimate problem because of that clearance. So, "out of an abundance of caution" (cough), lots of people would be denied clearances who aren't a threat.

Don't get me wrong ... from what the original article says, it sounds like this fellow is entitled to a boatload of compensation. I'm just not sure that individual accountability is necessarily the way to fix this ...
jkhuggins is offline  
Old Jul 30, 2010 | 11:14 am
  #7  
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
10 Countries Visited
1M
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 29,078
Since the letter from TSA gives no reason for the agency’s initial decision to revoke Adnan’s security clearance or for the reversal of this decision, Adnan remains confounded as to why TSA suspended the security clearance.
the answer is......
But the injustice faced by Adnan has not been erased. For a Muslim-American Delta worker and a refugee from systematic injustices abroad, due process of law, a fundamental tenet of the American justice system, was denied.
way to go tsa-methinks you're a little bit paranoid about those with brown skin and them funny soundin' names but think hiring convicted felons, sex offenders and pedophiles is ok
goalie is offline  
Old Jul 30, 2010 | 12:36 pm
  #8  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
20 Countries Visited
500k
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,986
Originally Posted by jkhuggins
Be careful; this type of argument can be used both ways. There are some who would argue that "these people" should be held personally accountable when someone who shouldn't have a security clearance gets one, and later causes a legitimate problem because of that clearance. So, "out of an abundance of caution" (cough), lots of people would be denied clearances who aren't a threat.

Don't get me wrong ... from what the original article says, it sounds like this fellow is entitled to a boatload of compensation. I'm just not sure that individual accountability is necessarily the way to fix this ...
I really don't follow your logic.

If people were held accountable for their actions then I think a bit more care would be used before making decisions that adversely impact others.
Boggie Dog is offline  
Old Jul 30, 2010 | 3:38 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
I really don't follow your logic.

If people were held accountable for their actions then I think a bit more care would be used before making decisions that adversely impact others.
Let me try again.

Suppose every worker at airport FOX is undergoing a security check, and I'm the person who has to decide whether that worker gets to keep their security clearance. I'm told that if I make a wrong decision, I'll be "held accountable".

I can screw up two different ways:
  • If I revoke someone's security clearance who deserves to have it, like this story, I've made a wrong decision, and I'm screwed.
  • On the other hand, if I allow someone to retain a security clearance, and then it turns out that he shouldn't have been allowed to keep it (because he ends up blowing up a plane or something), then I made a wrong decision, and I'm screwed. (Along with all his victims, of course.)

So, now here's an application on my desk. It's a borderline case. What do I do? If I improperly renew the clearance, I'll be condemned like the shmucks who gave the Underwear Bomber his visas, even though lots of people seemed to know he was a risk to aviation. If I improperly deny the clearance, I'll be condemned like the shmucks who made this guy's life so difficult for eight months.

All I'm saying is that one can make errors in both directions. That's not an excuse for not getting it right, of course. But how do you chart the middle course?
jkhuggins is offline  
Old Jul 30, 2010 | 3:44 pm
  #10  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
10 Countries Visited
Community Builder
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Grand Cayman
Posts: 18,737
The key part of your argument is

"It's a borderline case"

We have no such information.
Tom M. is offline  
Old Jul 30, 2010 | 4:06 pm
  #11  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
Originally Posted by Tom M.
The key part of your argument is

"It's a borderline case"

We have no such information.
Well, we're talking about a theoretical problem here ... would holding people personally responsible for screw-ups like this make them rarer? I'm not sure that such an approach might not cause other problems.

But I'm probably trying to make too subtle a point ...
jkhuggins is offline  
Old Jul 30, 2010 | 4:13 pm
  #12  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
1M
50 Countries Visited
All eyes on you!
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 72,278
Originally Posted by jkhuggins
Be careful; this type of argument can be used both ways. There are some who would argue that "these people" should be held personally accountable when someone who shouldn't have a security clearance gets one, and later causes a legitimate problem because of that clearance. So, "out of an abundance of caution" (cough), lots of people would be denied clearances who aren't a threat.

Don't get me wrong ... from what the original article says, it sounds like this fellow is entitled to a boatload of compensation. I'm just not sure that individual accountability is necessarily the way to fix this ...
The reason why F-ups like this happen is because there is no personal accountability within the federal government. Employees almost never pay - in any sense whatsoever - for screwing up.

I'm not saying the people responsible need to pay the victim compensation - that would bring government to a halt. What I am saying is that federal employees ought to experience some kind of consequences when they F up.
halls120 is online now  
Old Jul 30, 2010 | 4:18 pm
  #13  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
10 Countries Visited
Community Builder
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Grand Cayman
Posts: 18,737
Originally Posted by jkhuggins
Well, we're talking about a theoretical problem here
Unfortunately we are not talking about a theoretical problem here.

But in your theoretical example, I would suggest that if it was "borderline" maybe an interview with the person would be in order?
Tom M. is offline  
Old Jul 30, 2010 | 4:59 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
Originally Posted by halls120
I'm not saying the people responsible need to pay the victim compensation - that would bring government to a halt. What I am saying is that federal employees ought to experience some kind of consequences when they F up.
On that, I'll gladly agree. In any job, one should be expected to do the job properly in order to keep the job.

Originally Posted by Tom M.
Unfortunately we are not talking about a theoretical problem here.

But in your theoretical example, I would suggest that if it was "borderline" maybe an interview with the person would be in order?
I really don't want to pursue the hypothetical too much further here ... we can add enough "what-ifs" to the problem to get distracted from the original point, which I've pretty much lost at this point ... which was to clarify what we mean by "holding responsible". halls120 got it right: perhaps not personal financial liability, but certainly there should be consequences in the workplace.
jkhuggins is offline  
Old Jul 30, 2010 | 6:30 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: OOL/DOH
Programs: QF LTS WP, Avis Pres Club, HH Diam.
Posts: 3,190
or perhaps there should be systems of procedural fairness and natural justice so that when decisions like this are made, there is an independent path of review available.
VH-RMD is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.