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Old Jul 8, 2010 | 7:43 pm
  #31  
 
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The real danger from these Scanners

The Health Physics Society (HPS) reports that a person undergoing a backscatter scan receives approximately 0.05 μSv (or 0.005 mrems) of radiation; Rapidscan reports 0.09 μSv (0.009 mrems).

According to a draft standard on the FDA website:

http://www.fda.gov/OHRMS/DOCKETS/AC/...3751b1_06b.pdf

the allowable dose from a scan would be 0.1 μSv, and that report uses a model whereby a 0.01 μSv dose results in a 510−10 additional risk of death by cancer. Since the dose limit is ten times higher than 0.01 μSv, their model would predict one additional cancer death per 200 million scans. Since the airports in the UK handled 218 million passengers in 2009, if all passengers were scanned in the UK at the maximum dosage, this would produce on average one additional death every year. Is this acceptable?
Further, if you believe the nuclear physicists:

http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2010/05/17/concern.pdf

and the dose is 20 times as great, or greater, than we are frying more people than the terrorist could have ever imagined.
Exercise your RIGHT TO OPT-OUT. Tell your friends and relatives.
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Old Jul 8, 2010 | 7:49 pm
  #32  
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Originally Posted by mrscherry2000
I would lock my carry on so no one can go through it without me being right there to observe it. I would then tell them I'll be more than happy to unlock it for you to inspect while I am observing them, I'll be right over after I'm done being groped. Seriously, I have my cash, credit cards and expensive camera equipment and you think I'm NOT going to lock it to keep their grubby fingers off of it?
I've been doing the same thing even pre-TSA (although the threat of theft is MUCH higher with the TSA). I just say something like, "I'm being groped (or fondled) right now. You'll have to wait your turn!" They have no option but to wait or to take my briefcase outside and blow it up.
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Old Jul 8, 2010 | 10:15 pm
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
This has happened to me 2-3 times while wearing sandals. In each instance, I asked the screener, "Did it ever occur to you how stupid you look wanding bare feet?" One guy clammed up, got red in the face, and didn't say anything in response. The other two agreed with me.
It happens. When you do those handwands over and over sometimes you get on autopilot. I've caught myself about to do it a couple times. It's just force of habit.
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Old Jul 8, 2010 | 11:01 pm
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by TSO1973
It happens. When you do those handwands over and over sometimes you get on autopilot. I've caught myself about to do it a couple times. It's just force of habit.
Eh, they will not listen to you. Because, sir, you must do your job perfect; like everyone else who post here they NEVER make mistakes at their job. Never ever. You must do the same - otherwise you are stupid! Shame on you for not knowing this
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Old Jul 8, 2010 | 11:24 pm
  #35  
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Originally Posted by trvlr64
Actually they made me take all of the money out of my wallet and hold it in my hand. And I was only 5 feet away from the other agents going through my luggage and I was watching them the entire time my body was being patted down.
"money" is the least important component of this process. If you mean cash money, you left them with your CC numbers and the home address you were not at. Typical TSA theater while ignoring actual threats. I hope you have real-time notification of any charges to your credit cards.
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Old Jul 8, 2010 | 11:24 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by TSO1973
It happens. When you do those handwands over and over sometimes you get on autopilot. I've caught myself about to do it a couple times. It's just force of habit.
Originally Posted by SATTSO
Eh, they will not listen to you. Because, sir, you must do your job perfect; like everyone else who post here they NEVER make mistakes at their job. Never ever. You must do the same - otherwise you are stupid! Shame on you for not knowing this
Before SATTSO says "told ya so", I'm not saying that TSO1973 should do his job perfectly, but at the least it would seem that someone doing a search is concentrating, to some extent, on what they're searching for. If you're patting someone down to find something that's (possibly) concealed, shouldn't you be aware of whether the area is question could conceal something? If you're patting down someone's bare arms, legs, feet, are you really thinking about what you're doing?

Suppose I'm driving down a street in the shopping district looking for a large department store, peering at building names or street numbers. If at some point I realize that all the buildings on both sides of the road, ahead of me and for the last six blocks, are suburban houses, wouldn't you think I'd stopped paying attention my search?
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Old Jul 8, 2010 | 11:30 pm
  #37  
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Originally Posted by QUERY
Regarding the bolded section
Can you please learn how to use the IBB quote feature? It is not that difficult. Certainly less difficult than defending the TSA at every turn.
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Old Jul 8, 2010 | 11:32 pm
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Originally Posted by RadioGirl
Before SATTSO says "told ya so", I'm not saying that TSO1973 should do his job perfectly, but at the least it would seem that someone doing a search is concentrating, to some extent, on what they're searching for. If you're patting someone down to find something that's (possibly) concealed, shouldn't you be aware of whether the area is question could conceal something? If you're patting down someone's bare arms, legs, feet, are you really thinking about what you're doing?

Suppose I'm driving down a street in the shopping district looking for a large department store, peering at building names or street numbers. If at some point I realize that all the buildings on both sides of the road, ahead of me and for the last six blocks, are suburban houses, wouldn't you think I'd stopped paying attention my search?
I understand what your saying, but can also tell you most people wear socks. After you have wanded hundreds (thousands in many cases) of people it's not that you are nit paying attention, but that habit is hard to break.

I believe I do my job well - not perfect I have caught myself accidently wanding bare feet. But that was not because I was not paying attention. Habit can be a hard thing to break, even if you are paying attnetion.

And then, of course, there are the times your mind wanders. That is true. I would no of no one, in any profession - including you! - who has not had a wandering mind from time to time at work.

But I would argue that mostly it's habit regardless of who well a screener is paying attention.
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Old Jul 8, 2010 | 11:34 pm
  #39  
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Originally Posted by SATTSO
Eh, they will not listen to you. Because, sir, you must do your job perfect; like everyone else who post here they NEVER make mistakes at their job. Never ever. You must do the same - otherwise you are stupid! Shame on you for not knowing this
Isn't it your mandate that you do your job perfectly or people die?

You and the rest of FlyerTalk know your job is a joke, but once you start admitting it you should really think of resigning. @:-)
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Old Jul 8, 2010 | 11:47 pm
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which is more dangerous if you take one flight everyday for a whole year?

A: radiation received as a result of going through the nude-o-scope 365 times

B: the 365 flights that you took

C: the 365 airline meals that you ate(assuming all flights served hot meals)
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Old Jul 8, 2010 | 11:53 pm
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by birdstrike
Isn't it your mandate that you do your job perfectly or people die?

You and the rest of FlyerTalk know your job is a joke, but once you start admitting it you should really think of resigning. @:-)
Not it's not. Actually, we specifically talk about the face that security is not perfect. Where did you come up with that idea?

Originally Posted by MiloDrinker
which is more dangerous if you take one flight everyday for a whole year?

A: radiation received as a result of going through the nude-o-scope 365 times

B: the 365 flights that you took

C: the 365 airline meals that you ate(assuming all flights served hot meals)
I have a question regarding option "C"

what kind of food?

Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Jul 9, 2010 at 4:02 pm Reason: merge consective posts
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Old Jul 9, 2010 | 1:42 am
  #42  
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Originally Posted by SATTSO
And then, of course, there are the times your mind wanders. That is true. I would no of no one, in any profession - including you! - who has not had a wandering mind from time to time at work.
Brain surgeons? Test pilots? Race car drivers? Those guys on the floor at the stock market? There are lots of professions where a moment of inattention can be catastrophic. (Me, I'm paid to think creatively about solutions to problems. Letting my mind wander - but not too far - is part of the job. But I'm not claiming that people will die if I shut my eyes for a few minutes, either. )

Your colleague Dean is on another thread describing how he found something surprising in a leather folder because he was alert. Your management describes you as being on the front line in the war on terror. I've had screeners pat me down from shoulder to wrist when I'm wearing a light blouse with sleeves that stop well above the elbow. How can you say you're searching for the 1-in-a-trillion hidden bomb and not be aware that you're searching someone's bare arms for it?
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Old Jul 9, 2010 | 5:44 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by SATTSO
Eh, they will not listen to you. Because, sir, you must do your job perfect; like everyone else who post here they NEVER make mistakes at their job. Never ever. You must do the same - otherwise you are stupid! Shame on you for not knowing this
You can make mistakes, and you can simply be stupid. Wanding bare feet falls into the latter category.

Of course, choosing to work for TSA sort of defines the whole equation, once you think about it.
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Old Jul 9, 2010 | 6:26 am
  #44  
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Originally Posted by MiloDrinker
which is more dangerous if you take one flight everyday for a whole year?

A: radiation received as a result of going through the nude-o-scope 365 times

B: the 365 flights that you took

C: the 365 airline meals that you ate(assuming all flights served hot meals)
Irrelevant IMO.

(B) and (C) are things that one voluntarily agrees to do with some potential gain for themselves. You either travel for work, for fun, or even for mileage run. But you are gaining something for the travel. You eat airline meals because you're hungry, or are too lazy to bring your own food, or like the hot airline food better than the smashed sandwich you could pack or meal you could get from the food court.

(A) is something that airport security (particularly the UK and any place that is making the strip search mandatory or giving the impression that the strip search is mandatory, including some "rogue" TSA stations) is imposing on the passenger with no gain for the passenger undergoing the risk. I know 100% for certain that I am not a terrorist. And I know that someone has not secretly concealed a weapon/explosive/incendiary on my person. So I gain nothing by going through a backscatter. The only person who gains anything are the nervous nellies who want to see everyone else get x-rayed so that they "feel safe," and for that matter, want to see anything and everything done for the sake of making them "feel" safe.

Take medical x-rays for instance. In general, an x-ray will not be ordered unless there is a benefit to the patient that outweighs any risks. So I might have dental x-rays to see if I have cavities. Or an x-ray of my leg to see if it's broken. Or even a CT scan (quite large dose) to diagnose an organ plan. But nobody has x-rays for grins and giggles. And nobody has an x-ray ordered for the benefit of someone else, not the person receiving the x-ray.
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Old Jul 9, 2010 | 6:07 pm
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by SATTSO
I understand what your saying, but can also tell you most people wear socks. After you have wanded hundreds (thousands in many cases) of people it's not that you are nit paying attention, but that habit is hard to break.

I believe I do my job well - not perfect I have caught myself accidently wanding bare feet. But that was not because I was not paying attention. Habit can be a hard thing to break, even if you are paying attnetion.

And then, of course, there are the times your mind wanders. That is true. I would no of no one, in any profession - including you! - who has not had a wandering mind from time to time at work.

But I would argue that mostly it's habit regardless of who well a screener is paying attention.
Wanding bare feet, yeah it's a bonehead thing to do, but, it's not that it's incorrect. It is correct procedure, just an unnecessary step in a case like this.

And to the other poster who mentioned brain surgeons, test pilots, race car drivers, yes you are right. However, any time, in ANY profession, you have a human element involved, there is the possibility of mistakes. If surgeons made no mistakes whatsoever, then there would be no need for malpractice attorneys. Stock brokers? How about that guy a few weeks ago who meant to trade a million shares and punched in a billion and the Dow dropped 1000 points? Mistakes will happen.
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