Ron:
TSA IS A FAILURE PERIOD.

Here's sane screening, stop the stupid liquid b/s. Stop the shoe non sense. Screen like they do in the courthouse. The dep. there (real leo) told me we are not like "the idiots at the airport". Show's what he thinks of you.

Sure we have. Here's one: No she carnival, no liquids restrictions, no virtual strip-searches. Meets the needs of the nation, easier than current screenings, and provides no less security than we have now -- indeed, it would provide more, since screeners wouldn't be wasting their time looking for bombs in flip-flops.

Sure they have. Curtis/Bob Burns' posts at PV about this technology have been and continue to be thoroughly dishonest. Note that it took close to a year for him to admit that TSA has never posted a strip-search image that's the same size and resolution as those seen by the operators of the machines, for instance.

No, it's not my personal perspective, it's the cold hard numbers that demonstrate that the BDO program is a laughable failure that's never detected anyone trying to harm an aircraft, and that something well over 90% of those harassed by poorly-trained, unprofessional BDOs are not doing anything at all to merit additional screenings. You may consider pointlessly harassing hundreds of thousands of innocent people as a success, but that's a really, really stupid standard.

TSA consistently claims that shoes are a viable method of delivering explosive on board an aircraft. If that were the case, people would be using shoe bombs in countries without a shoe carnival. TSA is lying. It's very, very simple, which is why I imagine you don't understand this.

You're right, I don't have much concern or worry about shoe bombs, because I'm a grown-up who's capable of understanding that the likelihood of a shoe bombing is well below slim and pretty darn close to none even in countries with sane screening policies.

I actually feel sorry for TSORon. He's obviously brainwashed himself to believe the tripe put out by his agency, which is understandable - no one wants to believe that what they are doing for a living is irrelevant. So they invent strained rationale, wrap themselves in the flag, and tell us that they are "more American" than the rest of us just because they put on a cheap tin badge and call themselves "officer."

You know, I've got to second this as I was thinking the same thing about him & some of the TSA folks I know here & consider good human beings.

FYI, there are entire organizations out there that want to kill Indians. They will do whatever they can to make that happen. There have been enough plots and operations directed at Indian Citizens by these groups to convince most people that a certain amount of prevention and caution is necessary. There will always be segments of our society that refuse to be convinced. That prefer ignorance of the issues to knowledge because it violates their belief’s. There is also a small segment that boarders on the edge of some serious mental health issues on the subject.

FYI, there are entire organizations out there that want to kill Britons. They will do whatever they can to make that happen. There have been enough plots and operations directed at U.K. Citizens by these groups to convince most people that a certain amount of prevention and caution is necessary. There will always be segments of our society that refuse to be convinced. That prefer ignorance of the issues to knowledge because it violates their belief’s. There is also a small segment that boarders on the edge of some serious mental health issues on the subject.

FYI, there are entire organizations out there that want to kill Russians. They will do whatever they can to make that happen. There have been enough plots and operations directed at Russian Citizens by these groups to convince most people that a certain amount of prevention and caution is necessary. There will always be segments of our society that refuse to be convinced. That prefer ignorance of the issues to knowledge because it violates their belief’s. There is also a small segment that boarders on the edge of some serious mental health issues on the subject.

FYI, there are entire organizations out there that want to kill Israelis. They will do whatever they can to make that happen. There have been enough plots and operations directed at Israeli Citizens by these groups to convince most people that a certain amount of prevention and caution is necessary. There will always be segments of our society that refuse to be convinced. That prefer ignorance of the issues to knowledge because it violates their belief’s. There is also a small segment that boarders on the edge of some serious mental health issues on the subject.

And you know what - India, the UK, Russia, Israel - they have all been threatened longer than the US and all have more sensible security systems in place than the US. Yes, out there as they are, I still think the UK makes more sense than us.

Really, what was the purpose of that nonsense, other than showing the world how good we are at collectively crapping our pants whenever someone goes "Boo"?

He has no right to a job with the TSA - there are plenty of other jobs out there.

That's a good analogy to what we hear you and other TSA apologists say about our right to travel (that we can always take another means of transportation).

While I'm all for giving people the chance to turn their lives around, shouldn't someone that's given "public trust" be held to a slightly higher level of scrutiny? In some states this individual couldn't even get a license to sell liquor.

If I see an area with multiple TSA employees in plave I call that evidence of failure.

If I see TSA employees at an airline gate I call that proof of failure.

The issue with theft from luggage has been a problem since checked luggage came to be. As long as people have to handle it, there is going to be theft from it. I have never understood the reason to put a lock on a soft sided bag. But that is beside the point. Stats were not kept back in the good old days to see what was being done with theft from baggage. So therer is not any comparative figures for now vs then.
Lighters are no longer collected because it was costing 5 million dollars a year to dispose of them. They are still a quasi problem.

The red team tests are not the same tests that the gold old boys in private security had. They had what amounts to the Wiley Coyote bomb with the alarm clock the batteries and the wires with the dynamite attached. THe tests that we ge EVERYDAY now are much more sophisticated as we struggle to keep up with micro electronics and other technology. The line of work that TSA does is CATCH UP due to its nature. No one consults with DHS/TSA when they want to develope a new explosive so when it comes out TSA has to deal with it.

The costs analysis that you allude to will never be aparent without a red hot catch. Then the results become priceless. If, on the otherhand a 911 event happens then the money is said to be wasted. There are those people that believe that the money is wasted now. WIth the world the way that it is, and people are out to get each other, there is no easy fix to this. I wish there was.

I am not sure what you mean by the first statement. Are you saying that just the presence of TSA is indication of failure? Do you mean that because private security failed on 911 or what?
If you see TSA at a gate that could be a lot of things that are not an indication of a failure. There are:
1. Gate screenings.
2. Selectee screenings
3. Agency responses to accusations at the gates.
4. Thefts reported at the gate.
5. Property returns at the gate. I found 42 thousand dollars at DEN and it was returned at the gate.

So to say that TSA at the gate means a certain failure is not true.

I would wager to say that the other groups that you listed are not sought with the ferver that the USA has to deal with. Those other threats are not as prevailing right now. Those other groups have not suffered a WMD event like 911.

You are wrong. Dont get me started on courthouse screening. I went to an advanced explosives class and we got to blow things up. The liquid threat is real. Don't kid yourself due to ignorance. The shoe thing hmmm that is original because there have been multiple attempts at that and they still have not caught all the guys that have tried or been involved in the multiple incidents of shoes hiding explosives.
If the what you say is true the deputy at the courthouse is ignorant beyond all imagination.

FAIL 1. Gate screenings
FAIL 2. Selectee screenings
???? 3. Agency responses to accusations at the gates.
???? 4. Thefts reported at the gate.
PASS 5. Property returns at the gate. I found 42 thousand dollars at DEN and it was returned at the gate.

I'm not so sure what #3 and #4 have to do with TSA. Aren't these LEO functions?

~~ Irish

1. Gate screenings.
Why is this a failure? Because they already went through security. If they've already been screened, what is the purpose of screening again UNLESS you expect to have missed something? And then shouldn't EVERY passenger be screened multiple times?
2. Selectee screenings
See above.
3. Agency responses to accusations at the gates.
Accusations of what? And shouldn't that be in the hands of LEOs?
4. Thefts reported at the gate.
TSA is responsible for "security". Let the LEOs deal with thefts, especially as TSAs can't arrest and determine appropriate charges.
1. Gate screening is part of layered security and it has nothing to do with checkpoint screening. It is not an indication of the effectiveness of the checkpoint.
2. See above (j/K) Selectee screening can appear at the gate and there are things that are supposed to take place that are above and beyond what would take place at the checkpoint.
3. Accusations of anything from assault to being late and blaming TSA is going to get someone to the gate from TSA.
3. IF someone goes to a GA and says that there Rolex was stolen at the checkpoint, TSA is going to be there for many reasons. SO IS THE LEO
[/QUOTE]

Opinion ( see above)

Opinion


Opinion

The only reason why gate screening is back is due to some dumbass cop leaving her gun in the bathroom.

Gate screenings are designed to plug the hole in screening that has been complained about here and at the TSA blog by folks just like yourself. The hole? The ability of some unknown airport employee or TSA member to pass unauthorized items to a passenger post-checkpoint.

Selectee screening harms no one and catches quite a bit.

Why bother a LEO if there is no need? We are not talking about criminals, just someone who left something at the checkpoint. Nothing criminal in that, so no LEO support needed. I have returned quite a few things to passengers in the terminals as well, it’s a part of the job. After all, its more likely that I saw the person who left it behind than a LEO we would have to ball down to the checkpoint.

The theft’s at the gate are usually reported to us first. We are there, LEO’s are not usually (at least at my airport), and at some CAT III’s and IV’s they do not have a LEO presence at the airport.