In simple terms did not the Gilmore decision say that alternative means of screening had to be provided if a person desired to not provide an ID document?

TSA is to the best of my knowledge saying if I have ID on my person and wish not to display that ID I will have my right of travel restricted with out due process, which action, if I understand TSA's position correctly, is contrary to the Gilmore decision.

No, gilmore said a few things. One thing it said was even though the SEcurity Directive regarding TSAs identification policy is SSI, it is well post at various places that ID is needed, thus it is actually public knowledge, and therefor does not violate anyones due process (by having a secret or vague law).

Another thing gilmore said was alternative screening was available for those who chose not to furnish their ID, but that the entire process could be avoided because no one has to fly - a person can chose to travel by other means. To leave that part out really changes the intent of gilmore.

I am not certain what will happen if another person challenges the ID rule. Someone can still chose not to fly, as stated in gilmore. We will have to wait and see, I guess.

Ok, so I have ID on my person but choose to not show it, will TSA offer alternative screening or refuse to screen me?

Depends. The incident I related I left some things out, a this is an informal settig, and I wanted to make the story shorter. One thing they may ask from you then, as I asked that person once hr declined to show ID, is if he had any other documents I could see, such as credit cards, library cards, etc.

So if yor refuse to show your government ID would you present those? If you do not, and also refuse to provide info to the BDO so another TSA employee can verify your ID, you will be refused to fly.


However, this has been stated several times now, so what exactly don't you understand that hasn't already been post?

If I refuse to show TSA any identity document will I be offered alternative screening?

I already answered

And I'll tell you another story: I had a passenger bring a prohibited item into the checkpoint recently. I gave them the options, and told them it could not proceed past the checkpoint, to which they said something like "no I'm bring it with me."

the situation only resolved itself when the passenger realized the stso would deny them access through the ceckpoint (effectively telling them they coukd not fly) if they insisted in bringing the item with them. So the passenger checked the item in.

There are many instances where TSA can legally deny someone access through the checkpoint. If this pisses you off, well, too bad. :)

I haven't asked about any other situations or cases and NO you have not directly answered what seems to me a simple question.

How about just straight yes or no answers? Doesn't TSA have a rule to cover this situation?

If I present myself at a TSA checkpoint and refuse to show ID of any kind will I be offered alternative screening?

What seems like to you? Your asking an incomplete question and demanding I answer it. I wonder what you looking for?

Based on your question, and as I described in another post, I would ask if you have anything else I coukd use to verify your identity. Sorry, the answer to your question is not "yes" or "no" because TSA has no policy to deal specifically what your asking. I need more info.

How is the question "if I refuse to show TSA an identity document, will I be offered alternative screening" incomplete?

I am clearly saying I do not desire to show any ID. What happens then? Alternative screening or no screening of any kind?

Is it really that hard for you to understand my question? Bueller..... Bueller....

Anyone else reading not understanding the question I have asked?

You will be asked the questions I have now stated several times.

I don't know where your getting it from that at that moment a TSO decides to offer alternative screening. That decision is done at a later moment, after those other options I bring up are answered by the passenger.

I clearly stated I would not be willing to show any ID I had. Does it matter if I have ID on my person or not?

So to each of your questions I will not be willing to show ID. Will I be offered alternative screening?

I understand it. It's a very good question. I would also like an answer, as it has not yet been answered.

Ok, now that you are asking once a person goes tbrough the entire process, and refuses to comply with all of it, will they be offered additional screening and be allowed to fly? The answer is no.

And I have answered this question eariler in the threat multiple times, you must have skipped over those post.

It is a good question, but apparently an uninformed question. Refusing to show ID at the TDC is the middle of a process to get you through the checkpoint. A TSO would be wrong to either allow you through or deny you access at that point without completing further steps.

Example:

TDC TSO says : "can I see your ID"

Passenger says : "no, I do not want to show you"

TSO says : "then I will not let you through."

this TSO is incorrct.

Another example:

TDC TSO says : "can I see your ID"

Passenger says : "no, I do not want to show you"

TSO says : "it's ok, we will do additional screening on you, and you can go through the checkpoit."


again, the TSO is incorrct.


You were asking me if a decision would be made at that step in the process, and the answer is it would NOT be made at that step, but made later. I don't see why that is so hard to understand.

I never said anything about going through the entire process.

I have only asked one simple question which you have skated around, dodged, twisted and any other characterization you would like to use. You have truly proven that you are a government employee.

The question once again, if I refuse to show ID of any kind even if I have ID on my person will I be offered alternative screening.

I'm starting to wonder why you won't answer this question. Is it because the TSA answer is in direct opposition of a court ruling?

But would the correct response be we will do additional screening and if we substantiate who you are you will be allowed through the checkpoint. And if that is the correct course of events does it matter if I do have an ID in my pocket and just wish to not show it to anyone.

How does TSA derive the authority to restrict my right to travel without due process? Where are my accusers, the judge and a jury? TSA can surely screen me and my gear for WEI without all of this illegal activity.

Good lord! I clearly said "the answer is no"! How can I be more clear than that?!?!? And after saying that how can you say Im trying not to answer??!!??

Edit: and you SPECIFFICALLY said, as you clarified, you would go through the entire process. To dirctly quote you:

"So to each of your questions I will not be willing to show ID. Will I be offered alternative screening?"