Damaged Indentification
 

Hello,

I will be flying soon from LAX to SFO and my part of my ID is chipped. The part that is chipped didn't contain any information. Do you think that I will have any problems with TSA?

You shouldn't have any issues. We see damaged ID's pretty often. I've had some handed to me that were almost broken in half. So long as the needed info is visible and there's no signs of tampering, should be good to go. :)

Just be prepared for some possible snotty attitude.

My DL was in my wallet when my house burned down; one end of it melted, but the rest of it was okay because air couldn't get to it. None of the data is obfuscated, so DPS won't issue me a replacement without another license fee - nuts to that.

So I fly with it. But I'd say about 20-25% of the TDC's I encounter tell me that they'll "Let me slide this time, but I need to get it replaced". Like they know.

You shouldn't have any problems my ID is cracked down the center a good 3/4 of the way. I have yet to get any problems. Lady at IAH asked what happened and at MSP they took a magnifyer to it, at ORD the lady just commented how beat it was.

I would think aslong as the protective filming on them isn't peeling you will be fine, even if its cracked over some data. My ID also isn't scanable too as I had trouble in Iowa a year ago trying to get into a casino boat.
If they do say something I always tell them it expires at end of 2010 so I get a new one soon.

Welcome to FlyerTalk! :)

Is is clipped because it's expired?

When I have seen them do that, they punch it through the expiration date. I have never seen them just clip a corner or some such thing.

What is "the needed info"? What would it mean for someone to not be "good to go"?

Um, so you didn't tell them you lost it in which case they'd be glad to replace it? That's what I've done with cards of various kinds.

Are you saying JoeBas should have lied?

I guess you can call it that, but the bureaucracy apparently is making it necessary. And it will charge him, so I can't see any particular "moral turpitude" such as you are suggesting. Face it, people, you need to adapt to survive. Instead of that, you want to make these sissy protests. Better to get sympathy than just to get on with, is that the way you think?

Now I understand; the ends justify the means.

I wasn't aware I was suggesting that; can you point to where I suggested that?

Whoa! What sissy protest am I making exactly? I asked a simple question; you could have just answered "yes" rather than written a treatise on why it is necessary "to adapt to survive" payment of an $11 fee intertwined with personal attacks.

And, if you bothered to do your homework, you'd know that the TX DPS charges for a replacement for any reason, lost/stolen included, rendering your proposed lie useless:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/DriverLicense/dlfees.htm

A little tough to tell them I lost it when I'd just showed it to them when asking if I needed a new one... :confused:

Who needs "homework"? That's standard every place I've ever lived. So, you pay because you had a misfortune that damaged your ID. Wow, that's a catastrophe, isn't it? How often do you fly? What does that cost? Why are you willing to fork out that money but not a piddling amount for a new ID card? But, gosh, its one more way to complain about TSA, and one can't let those slide by.

How does your suggestion above help the OP? He wants it replaced without a fee, or did you miss that?

That was the OP's issue. You suggested a non-solution to the OP's problem-- one that involved telling a lie. Perhaps you didn't read the OP correctly, or perhaps you were unable to give him any useful advice so you just spouted random advice?

I'm still trying to understand how "you didn't tell them you lost it" is a response to "DPS won't issue me a replacement without another license fee[/U][/B] - nuts to that".

You'd have to ask the OP that, but since you don't quote other posts in your posts, I have no idea whom you are asking.

Actually, mrcav asked a question regarding his future travel, and TSO1973, JoeBas and davef139 provided answers. Then pmocek and N965VJ asked related questions and I responded to N965VJ with my related experience.

I can't find a single place in this thread where someone complained about the TSA unless you consider "just be prepared for some possible snotty attitude" to be a complaint. If that's the case, you have a very low threshold.

Yet, you jump in as if it were you. News flash: It wasn't!!!

In the future, just use the multi-quote feature and you will never have to worry about that again! (You only quoted me in your post).

Welcome back, by the way. ;)

I use the quick reply by clicking on the pencil-paper icon. Can't you tell that its not for you? Plus, unless you can find something related to what YOU wrote, isn't it rather silly to assume it is aimed at you? Why do I have to do everyone else's thinking for them?

Yeah, notice the OP did reply why, and there was no response to that. LOL

For the $11, I probably would have replaced it. But back when it was damaged a number of years back, the options were that DPS replaced it for the $11 if it was damaged beyond repair, but that if it was still valid (I.E. data not obscured), you had to get a full renewal, which was significantly more.

As I said, telling them I lost it after I had just showed it to them wouldn't be too bright. And who wants to go back and stand in a DPS line again just because TSA doesn't know what they're doing?

As I said above, nuts to that. I just smile and nod at the ignorant TDC, knowing he/she can't do anything about it, and get on with my life.

TSO1973:

What is "the needed info"? What would it mean for someone to not be "good to go"?

Yeh, you're right, once you've shown it to someone, you're screwed. Sad story. But I guess you painted yourself into a corner. I still say the fees for a new license are pathetically small. Not sure why a thread is warranted, but..............yeh it is ONE MORE thing to flay TSA for. I guess that's a reward all by itself, wot?

I just read through the thread. People are very sympathetic, lot more than me, but what is the solution? Has anyone arrived at one? Solutions beat sympathy in the real world.

mrcav started the thread with a question-- perhaps he was out of town and he had a damaged ID and wanted to know if it was a problem with the TSA. JoeBas just posted his experience and was not asking for any solution at all, though you were happy to tell him to lie to get a new license for a reduced fee.

I don't see where anyone knocked the TSA in this thread . . . anywhere . . . at all. Can you point to a place?

Solution for JoeBas (unsolicited): Pay the necessary fee or live with your damaged license. Or pay for an ID card to have with your license if TX allows both like many states do.

Answer for the OP (solicited): No problem with the TSA, but you may have to deal with some attitude.

Probably screwed till he gets back home and has access to other ID. One thing it tells me is what a good idea it was to carry a color photocopy of my passport when I last went to Europe. Supposedly you can arrange for replacement while on the trip, but how much nicer NOT to have to do that. Maybe a backup of some kind is good when on a trip.

What are you talking about? :confused:

Are we reading the same thread, LuvAirFrance? How will he be "screwed till he gets back home and has access to other ID"? :confused:

His ID is chipped with no info missing; a TSO says it is OK; another poster says he is able to fly with his damaged ID. Again, how is the OP screwed?

Looks like its time to delete this from subscriptions.

^

(Also not sure why you subscribed to a thread you didn't read . . .)

TSO1973: What info is needed? What does "good to go" mean?
 

TSO1973:

What is "the needed info"? What would it mean for someone to not be "good to go"?

I believe it would be the following:

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...documents.shtm

Not have an ID with that information on it?

I'm sure TSO1973 will return to this thread to confirm . . .

Needed info would be things like name, gender, expiration date, is the person in the picture the same as the person presenting it to me, and the various features that make ID's much harder to forge, like the holograms and microprint....

The paragraph directly after the one you quoted on the TSA page contradicts the first, explaining that passengers are not required to show such a photo ID:

Can you please be specific? You've implied that certain information must be visible on someone's identity credentials in order for someone to be "good to go". Yet presentation of such credentials is not required. I want to know what you think is required, and what it would mean for someone not to be "good to go".

How much more specific can I be besides name, gender, expiration date and photo Phil? It doesn't get any more specific than that. I don't look at address, I don't look at birthdate, I don't care about those and they don't have anything to do what I'm doing. If you have those specific things that I mentioned, you are "good to go" from my position.

That's not what you said. You said things like that:

And if someone doesn't "have those specific things"? I keep asking you what it means for someone not to be "good to go", but you still haven't said. In fact, it's not completely clear what "good to go" means. Do you mean that if someone shows you identity credentials with the information you listed, that person will be allowed to proceed?

When someone asks about potential trouble from TSA when traveling with damaged ID, I would expect your response to be, "No, you won't have any trouble from us, unless you consider answering a few questions and having you and your belongings thoroughly searched for weapons, explosives, and incendiaries, to be trouble. You don't need to show us ID in the first place. Doing so is optional. It would just get you through our checkpoint with less scrutiny than we'll give you if you don't have it." That's the case, isn't it?

This is starting to sound like Clinton's "what the meaning of 'is' is"....

Good to go means exactly that. If I'm at TDC and I have the information I listed on the ID that's being presented, the boarding pass gets stamped and you are on your way, good to go. If you don't have or choose not to present the ID, then additional screening kicks in. That additional screening is done by other officers, not myself.

Yeah, well in that case, the meaning of "is" was not "is"; it was "is or was". It was a poorly-worded question. Clarification was needed. When someone's freedom is at stake, guessing is not a smart thing to do.

As for your policies and your seeming inability to clearly communicate them to us: If your employer would simply publish the rules passengers are required to follow in order to be allowed to pass your barricade and go on about their business, none of this be necessary.

Exactly what? If you mean "free to go on about your business" or "allowed to pass my podium", then why don't you just say so? When you're telling us how to avoid having our liberties restricted, please cut the folksy crap and just tell us specifically what the rules are.

So why did you earlier imply that the passenger must present identity credentials with some particular information on them? Your response was misleading. And why would the OP care which security guard does what?

Mrcav, in that situation, you shouldn't have any problems with TSA. You're not required to show ID in the first place, and a damaged ID is no worse than the lack of any ID. But TSA staff are frequently unfamiliar with their own policies, and TSA would prefer to have people think that showing ID is mandatory, so it's likely that you will experience some trouble. You'd best leave yourself extra time and be ready to deal with some ignorance and power-tripping.

TSO1973, do you disagree?

I thought "good to go" was a pretty self explanatory phrase. Apparently not. Good to go means as far as from TDC, you're done with that part and on your way to the x-ray/WTMD. Clear now?

The acceptable ID is required to have certain pieces of information on them. That information was listed by myself and Ari as well. Does presenting the ID at the TDC make things go much easier and smoother? It absolutely does. Is there steps taken in case that ID is either not presented or not acceptable? Yes there are. I never said that ID "must" be presented.

I do disagree with the last statement. It would be highly unlikely that the OP would experience trouble simply because his ID has some damage to it. As I said in my very first reply, we see damaged ID's all the time. As far as the ignorance and the power tripping statement, you're painting a pretty broad stroke with that brush. But you're entitled to your opinion.

Yes, that's clear.

Okay, so what do you mean by "the acceptable ID"? This thing that people have the option of presenting to you? Of what significance are the things that it is required to have if passengers are not required to have it? Ari quoted related misinformation from your Web site.

Understood. You said that if a passenger presents credentials containing certain information the passenger would be "good to go". I repeatedly asked you what it would mean for someone not to be "good to go" but you never said. I think most people would read your initial response to mean, "If you present identity credentials with at least these pieces of information, you will be allowed proceed, and if you do not present such, you will not be allowed to proceed."

I speak from experience when I say that explaining to a TSA document checker that ID is not required frequently results in such. How do you suppose most of the document checkers you know would act if someone arrived and presented his boarding pass without "acceptable ID"? Do you suppose the doc checker would say, "I need your ID?" When the passenger says, "No, my boarding pass is all I'm required to show you," what do you suppose the reaction would be?

Do you think your agency clearly communicates the fact that passengers are not required to "show ID" at your checkpoints?

I thought it was pretty clear.

As far as "imply[ing] that the passenger must present identity credentials", I don't see that anywhere

People post from their own prespective.

Why would you give bad advice like this? :td:

TSO1973 just posted that damaged ID's are acceptable to the TSA as ID-- why would you say that it is "no worse than the lack of any ID" when that is clearly not the case? Not everyone has the time to or wishes to decline to present ID to prove a point-- clearly the OP is happy to present his ID and just wants to know if the TSA will accept a damaged ID. According to your advice, the OP should not bother to present that ID and go through questions and more intense searches. Where do you get off giving advice like this? :td::(

I'm starting to understand exactly why the ABQ police grew tiresome of your antics . . . not to say that is justification for arrest in and of itself . . . but I am seeing their side of it right about now . . .

Phil, as far as your question as to what might happen if someone refused to present ID, I think you already well know one of the possible answers.

However, I have encountered a situation like yours and the one you describe. It's quiet easy to deal with. A passenger refused to present ID, he wasn't allowed in. And I did not check his BP. Now it didn't happen, but if he would have proceeded past me there is an easy solution. Since I had not checked his BP, i would have had a LEO escort him back out of the checkpoint.

Opening a can of worms, are we . . . ?

No, not really. I will not physically block someone from walking past me at TDC. But if I haven't checked their BP, it's very simple to deny them entry to the checkpoint - and by that I mean have a LEO escort them back to the non-sterile area. No cans of worms here :)

I don't know what happened in phils run-in with TSA. I have seen his, uh, attitude here for some months, and have heard his side of the story, but I don't know why it ended with his arrest. But I wasn't there, so I do not know.

Like I said, I have had one person refuse to show me ID, and it wasn't a big deal. A young man, and he said something like what people on this site say about the ID check. I told him sorry, he couldn't enter, and handed back his BP. And then I called for the next in line. After I processed a few passengers he asked to speak to a STSO.

I explained to the STSO the situation, and she asked the guy if his ID was lost or stolen or missing. He confined he had it, just did nit want to show it. She too told him he couldn't enter, and left. No police called. After I processed a few more passengers he finially showed me his ID and called me a name as he bravely walked into the checkpoint :)

But as far as this overall thread goes, damaged ID is almost always no problem. Depends on how damaged and what part of the ID is damaged. For almost all passengers, it results in no delays.

I don't understand what you mean. Showing ID is not required. It seems logical that showing a damaged ID is no worse than not showing any at all, and even neglecting to show any isn't supposed to disqualify someone from flying. So I stand by my assertion that it's no worse than none at all. It's probably better than none at all.

I agree. This person's credentials were damaged and he was concerned about whether he'd be allowed to fly. Of course that won't prevent him from flying. He's not required to have them in the first place.

TSA will accept someone without ID. What sense does it make to ask if they'll accept damaged ID? When someone asks about what sort of ID TSA will accept, it's a pretty good indicator that the person thinks TSA requires passengers to show ID.

Which of these do you suppose the OP intended to ask:

1. My ID is damaged. Will TSA still allow me to fly?
2. My ID is damaged. Should I even bother to show it so that TSA still allow me to slip through security with just a walk through the magnetometer and X-ray of my bags?

I suspect it was #1. The answer is "Yes. You're not required to present a pristine ID or any ID. It might take longer than normal, so plan for some extra time. Also, TSA provides lots of misleading information about their passenger identification policies. Even their staff don't typically know the rules, and those who do will sometimes disregard the rules, and there's not much you can do about it. It might not make any difference at all, because their policies are so unclear and so subject to the whims of whoever is working the document checker podium that day."

The answer to #2 is, "Sure. It can't hurt."

At least once per month, someone comes on TS&S to ask if he or she will be allowed to fly with this ID, that ID, an expired ID, or no ID. The truth (best we can tell from press releases, blog posts, tips for travelers, and redacted documents pried out of our government via FOIA) is that none of that matters. Showing ID just gets you through with less scrutiny.

Right, TSO1973? Passengers who wish to pass through your checkpoint with less scrutiny should show ID, right? You're going to search them less thoroughly if they show ID, and more thoroughly if they do, right?

No, the OP should not worry about whether his ID is damaged or not when considering whether he'll be allowed to fly. He's not required to show ID.

Of course, this hinges on TSA staff knowing the rules and not acting like power-tripping a......s.

Speaking of which:

Why didn't you allow him in? He didn't break any rules, right? Was it because he didn't tell you his ID was misplaced or stolen? Do you think that his choosing not to show you what you wanted but were not entitled to see indicated that he would present a danger to other passengers on his flight? Did the fact that he did not utter the words "I lost it" indicate that he was dangerous? Had he bent over and kissed your feet, would you have continued to perform the procedure we pay you to perform instead of restricting the man's movement?