Community
Wiki Posts
Search

Chased by a TSO!

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Apr 21, 2010 | 8:45 pm
  #46  
Ari
FlyerTalk Evangelist
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,678
Originally Posted by PTravel
I know what TSA said. And it's wrong.
I'll take your word for it since I don't know the law well enough in that arena.
Ari is offline  
Old Apr 21, 2010 | 11:23 pm
  #47  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SE Asia
Posts: 647
Non-commercial photography is protected under the First Amendment. There are no lawful local rules against photography in public places.[/QUOTE]


Commercial shopping malls are often believed to be 'public space' when in fact it has been ruled, if privately owned as most are, then it is not 'public space'. Photography e.g. can be prohibited.

Therefore, as many airports are privately owned by corporations and such then photography can probably be banned throughout the facility if they so wish.

Any attornies on board wish to elaborate?

Last edited by bluenotesro; Apr 21, 2010 at 11:27 pm Reason: screwed up :)
bluenotesro is offline  
Old Apr 22, 2010 | 1:04 am
  #48  
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,957
Originally Posted by bluenotesro
Commercial shopping malls are often believed to be 'public space' when in fact it has been ruled, if privately owned as most are, then it is not 'public space'. Photography e.g. can be prohibited.

Therefore, as many airports are privately owned by corporations and such then photography can probably be banned throughout the facility if they so wish.
All airports at which the TSA is located are government owned and are thus subject to the restrictions imposed by the Constitution, which includes the right to take photographs in publicly accessible spaces. Private shopping malls are not owned by the government and, for the most part (California being one of the exceptions if I recall correctly), are not subject to the restrictions imposed by the Constitution on prohibiting photographs.

As an aside, the TSA has said in its discussions about photography that we are not permitted to take pictures of the x-ray monitors. I have read the implementing regulations and have discussed the same with a TSA attorney and know this is not the case. The x-ray monitors are considered to be SSI, so "covered persons" are not permitted to take pictures of them and are to protect that info. However, regular passengers do not fall under the "covered person" definition and, as such, are not subject to the requirement. So a TSO (or an aircrew member) would not be permitted to take a picture of an x-ray monitor, but the general public can without restriction.
ND Sol is offline  
Old Apr 22, 2010 | 5:37 am
  #49  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
Originally Posted by bluenotesro
Commercial shopping malls are often believed to be 'public space' when in fact it has been ruled, if privately owned as most are, then it is not 'public space'. Photography e.g. can be prohibited.

Therefore, as many airports are privately owned by corporations and such then photography can probably be banned throughout the facility if they so wish.

Any attornies on board wish to elaborate?
I already did.
PTravel is offline  
Old Apr 22, 2010 | 5:44 am
  #50  
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 322
Commercial shopping malls are often believed to be 'public space' when in fact it has been ruled, if privately owned as most are, then it is not 'public space'. Photography e.g. can be prohibited.
Except airports are government owned, so this really doesn't apply.

IANAL, but IAAIP (I Am An Informed Photographer) who picks battles, but will fight them hard.
Travelsonic is offline  
Old Apr 22, 2010 | 7:40 am
  #51  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SE Asia
Posts: 647
Thanks for the clarification....I was under the impression some airports were privately owned.
bluenotesro is offline  
Old Apr 22, 2010 | 9:32 am
  #52  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
Originally Posted by ND Sol
As an aside, the TSA has said in its discussions about photography that we are not permitted to take pictures of the x-ray monitors.
Reference, please? I remember blogger Bob Burns stating so once, but only after he stated such was simply discouraged, and after multiple TSA representatives at airports confirmed his first statement. I admit that it seems likely that those representatives mistakenly thought "we ask that you not" means the same thing as "you must not". Regardless, none of those who responded to my request for information from 50 airports said that such photography was prohibited.

Originally Posted by ND Sol
I have read the implementing regulations and have discussed the same with a TSA attorney and know this is not the case. The x-ray monitors are considered to be SSI, so "covered persons" are not permitted to take pictures of them and are to protect that info. However, regular passengers do not fall under the "covered person" definition and, as such, are not subject to the requirement. So a TSO (or an aircrew member) would not be permitted to take a picture of an x-ray monitor, but the general public can without restriction.
Thanks!

Last edited by pmocek; Apr 22, 2010 at 9:37 am Reason: link to supporting info
pmocek is offline  
Old Apr 22, 2010 | 10:36 am
  #53  
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,957
Originally Posted by pmocek
Reference, please? I remember blogger Bob Burns stating so once, but only after he stated such was simply discouraged, and after multiple TSA representatives at airports confirmed his first statement. I admit that it seems likely that those representatives mistakenly thought "we ask that you not" means the same thing as "you must not". Regardless, none of those who responded to my request for information from 50 airports said that such photography was prohibited.
The TSA site does say that it is a request not to take pictures of monitors, but as you noted, Blogger Bob came out after beating around the bush and said we are not to. Then as the link to your photography thread notes, there are a number of airports that spout the same prohibition.
ND Sol is offline  
Old Apr 22, 2010 | 1:22 pm
  #54  
In memoriam
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: AKL
Programs: QF WP & AA EXP
Posts: 5,233
Originally Posted by Travelsonic
Except airports are government owned
US airports are (mostly) government owned. Plenty of privately-owned (or publicly traded, as in the case of my home airport AKL) commercial airports in the world.

Originally Posted by bluenotesro
Thanks for the clarification....I was under the impression some airports were privately owned.
There are privately-owned airports and airstrips in the US, but I don't believe there are any (certainly not many, anyway) that provide scheduled commercial flights with any of the major carriers.
wijomas is offline  
Old Apr 22, 2010 | 4:57 pm
  #55  
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: PHL-adjacent
Programs: AA Executive Platinum (but always US in my heart), HH Diamond
Posts: 3,358
Originally Posted by PhlyingRPh
I wasn't afraid of confrontation. The problem was a) I was late for my flight and didn't want to lose the upgrade, and b) My policy is that I stop for no uniformed individuals in the US (ask the poor red coats at the checkpoint in LGA) except LEOs.

[bolding mine]
Spoken like a true FTer!
honeytoes is offline  
Old Apr 22, 2010 | 6:22 pm
  #56  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 315
Originally Posted by wijomas
US airports are (mostly) government owned. Plenty of privately-owned (or publicly traded, as in the case of my home airport AKL) commercial airports in the world.

There are privately-owned airports and airstrips in the US, but I don't believe there are any (certainly not many, anyway) that provide scheduled commercial flights with any of the major carriers.
Nope, there is actually one in Branson, Missouri. It has scheduled commercial passenger service and is staffed by the TSA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branson_Airport

Branson Airport (IATA: BKG, ICAO: KBBG, FAA LID: BBG) is a public use airport located eight nautical miles (15 km) south-southeast of the central business district of Branson, a city in Taney County, Missouri, United States. It is privately owned by Branson Airport, LLC.[1]

Although most U.S. airports use the same three-letter location identifier for the FAA and IATA, this airport is assigned BBG by the FAA and BKG by the IATA[2] (which assigned BBG to Butaritari Atoll Airport in Butaritari, Kiribati[3]).

The airport opened on May 11, 2009. It is currently the only privately owned, privately operated commercial service airport in the United States[4][5][6] as National Express Group Plc. reverted control of Stewart International Airport to the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. As part of the negotiations to create the airport, as a liability shield, and obtain financing, Branson Airport, LLC had to "gift" the land they owned to Taney County, Missouri in order to lease and operate the airport privately.[6]
TerminalBliss is offline  
Old Apr 22, 2010 | 7:14 pm
  #57  
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,957
Originally Posted by TerminalBliss
Nope, there is actually one in Branson, Missouri. It has scheduled commercial passenger service and is staffed by the TSA.
I knew that once Stewart was sold to the Port Authority, that took it out of being a private airport. I did not realize that about Branson. Though classified as private, it is interesting that the county owns the land and a transportation district was set up to sell tax-free bonds. I wonder how that will impact First Amendment rights on the property.

Local county officials allowed the group to create a transportation district so they could issue tax-free bonds. Though the county initially has no control over the airport, it does own the actual property. And the private investors will hand over operation of the airport itself to the county in 45 years.
ND Sol is offline  
Old Apr 23, 2010 | 11:12 am
  #58  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: IAD
Programs: *wood Gold
Posts: 1,780
Originally Posted by PhlyingRPh
I just looked at the photograph carefully for the first time. It actually captures the chubby TSO who chased after me looking straight at me, so he must have seen me just as I was about to take it, rather than just after the flash went off. It also shows a second TSO, whom I did not notice at the time, standing at the other side of the gate looking directly at me with his arm moving as if he is about to point at me, and his face and mouth in a very unnatural contortion, as if he is about to shout. I now think that he is the one who shouted. The shout then caused the tubby TSO to reflexively begin the chase.
Can you post the picture somewhere? (Would you be willing to? I'd like to see it...)
clrankin is offline  
Old Apr 23, 2010 | 12:45 pm
  #59  
Original Poster
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Programs: UA/CO(1K-PLT), AA(PLT), QR, EK, Marriott(PLT), Hilton(DMND)
Posts: 9,538
Originally Posted by clrankin
Can you post the picture somewhere? (Would you be willing to? I'd like to see it...)
I would love to share it! However, that largely depends what the outcome of posting this is.
PhlyingRPh is offline  
Old Apr 23, 2010 | 1:33 pm
  #60  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 135
OP was lucky not to have been pelted with applesauce confiscated from a 93 year old.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/newss...sauce-tsa.html
ilgoldstein is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.