Oh, please. Nearly my entire work life has been spent in non-union businesses. It is a TOTAL myth that the open shops are full of meritocracy. That is a very scarce exception to the rule. Merit is a distant second to being liked by the boss. Don't know if this applies in TSA, but once and for all stop spreading the BS that "if it weren't for that union, we could reward our stars".

Are you asking me for a cite?

That's not completely accurate. National Guard mobililized for duty pursuant to Title 32 are not restricted from performing LE functions by Posse Comitatus. Moreover, when activated, NG certainly aren't civilians.

Guard units may also be mobilized in Title 32 status to perform certain missions in support Operation Noble Eagle in order to void the restrictions of posse comitatus...Guard solders may also be ordered to active duty under Title 32 U.S. Code. Title 32 allows for the mobilization of Guard units under the control of a state�s governor, but with full federal pay and allowances being provided by the federal government.58 Despite the federal funding, such troops are not constrained by the restrictions placed on �the Army National Guard while in the service of the United States. If granted authority by the governor, soldiers in Title 32 status can thus perform law enforcement functions--to include direct participation in search and seizure activities and being granted arrest activities.

Anyway, just nitpicking since I undertand the gist of your post. Civilian LE are just that...civilians, albeit paramilitary.

TB

Nope. Ron made the assertion that the vast majority of Americans agreed with him rather than you. I asked Ron for the citation to back up his claim.

^^^

OK, don't think you should get in a hurry expecting an answer.

I'm been thinking about it today. TSA is already pretty much a screwed up organization and adding a union could only foul things up more.

Might be a win win!

Don't worry - I welcome, nay, thrive on nitpicking!

Good point. IME, the apple shiners always won when promotions were made. Competence was irrelevant.

My guess was that, aside from PennDOT having a rep for doing nothing, he was mainly a summer hire so they crapped all over him and the other guys. He also mentioned that they had a stupid rule that no one could leave until the most senior person left, even if their shift was over.

My experience was better (was in one 4.5 years), but I can't say they really seemed to do much but collect my dues.

Won't work. Federal employees can't strike, at least not legally. And you know all people should know that.

Of course, TSA has never been a happy workplace. Otherwise, we wouldn't be b**chin' for a union would we?

Sad that that was your experience. The interesting thing is that what you say has been more true in the federal sector than anywhere else.

However, if the place that promotes brown nosers then the place typically has problems keeping good people. In the companies I've seen, the ones that reward the good performers and recognize their efforts are the ones that had the happiest and highest performing employees. I've been rewarded for my efforts at certain companies and I'm definitely not a brown noser.

Politics are involved to some degree, that's true. However, if it all becomes political then like the union, it all comes down to ... kissing and good people won't put up with that.

YMMV.

Do you really think unions are going to fix the problem? The legacies airlines have been unuionized for years and they're still not happy places to work. The problem's management. If management isn't fixed the union will isnt't going to change that. Just take a look at how happy UA employees are under the current management.

From where I am only, I would not want to think of how bad the pay would be with out the union.

Here's a strange thought. What would happen if ...

1. TSA unionizes.
2. The union, dissatisfied with (pick an issue), strikes.
3. The federal government, in response to the illegal strike, fires all the strikers, thereby disbanding TSA, and hires external contractors to handle security at all airports.
4. The strikers, like the air traffic controllers thirty years ago, are out of luck. A few a hired back, but only at the discretion of TSA management.

Some FTers have called for the disbanding of TSA and a return to screening provided by private contractors. Would unionization actually be a bizarre way of achieving that end?

(Disclaimer. I've never called for the disbanding of TSA and have no opinion on TSA unionization. I'm just throwing a hypothetical out there.)

The unions in play that want to represent TSA would never strike. They are well aware what they can and can not do. Something to consider, a unionized TSA MAY and I stress MAY go a long way to achieve what many here seem to desire. With the union comes standardization of how things are done in order to ensure each employee gets treated equally. You may get the consistency you want.

FB

What we will get is even less efficiency and more laziness.