List of cases the TSA has blown with illegal behavior.
Nov 22, 2009 | 9:22 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,006
List of cases the TSA has blown with illegal behavior.
I have been commenting on Carlos Miller's site about Phil's arrest and the forced ID verification policy. It occurred to me that we need a list of all the cases that the TSA has blown due to illegal behavior.
I would like the list to stay with cases that have already been ruled on or settled. I would like us to make links to the rulings when at all possible.
Fofana Ruling
McCarty Ruling
I would like the list to stay with cases that have already been ruled on or settled. I would like us to make links to the rulings when at all possible.
Fofana Ruling
McCarty Ruling
Nov 22, 2009 | 9:43 pm
#2
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 72,265
I have been commenting on Carlos Miller's site about Phil's arrest and the forced ID verification policy. It occurred to me that we need a list of all the cases that the TSA has blown due to illegal behavior.
I would like the list to stay with cases that have already been ruled on or settled. I would like us to make links to the rulings when at all possible.
Fofana Ruling
McCarty Ruling
I would like the list to stay with cases that have already been ruled on or settled. I would like us to make links to the rulings when at all possible.
Fofana Ruling
McCarty Ruling
Nov 22, 2009 | 9:56 pm
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,678
Is the appeal a sure thing? In Fofana, they dropped the appeal (though they are trying to keep some other charges against him that they say don't require fruit of the posionous tree to prove-- I haven't checked how that one worked out, or if it has yet).
Nov 23, 2009 | 5:31 am
#4
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 72,265
It depends. When the government loses a case, the SG doesn't automatically authorize an appeal. If the decision doesn't bind the government, or set a wide ranging precedent, they rarely will give an appeal the green light, because if we lose in the appellate arena, we could be worse off than if we just dropped the case at the district court level.
Nov 23, 2009 | 6:47 am
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,343
I have been commenting on Carlos Miller's site about Phil's arrest and the forced ID verification policy. It occurred to me that we need a list of all the cases that the TSA has blown due to illegal behavior.
I would like the list to stay with cases that have already been ruled on or settled. I would like us to make links to the rulings when at all possible.
Fofana Ruling
McCarty Ruling
I would like the list to stay with cases that have already been ruled on or settled. I would like us to make links to the rulings when at all possible.
Fofana Ruling
McCarty Ruling
Nov 23, 2009 | 7:39 am
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,985
I have been commenting on Carlos Miller's site about Phil's arrest and the forced ID verification policy. It occurred to me that we need a list of all the cases that the TSA has blown due to illegal behavior.
I would like the list to stay with cases that have already been ruled on or settled. I would like us to make links to the rulings when at all possible.
Fofana Ruling
McCarty Ruling
I would like the list to stay with cases that have already been ruled on or settled. I would like us to make links to the rulings when at all possible.
Fofana Ruling
McCarty Ruling
And TSA didn't seem to want a trial on the merits.
I would consider adding Beirfeldt to the list.
Last edited by Boggie Dog; Nov 23, 2009 at 10:09 am Reason: corrected Bierfedlt spelling
Nov 23, 2009 | 9:22 am
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,678
Nov 23, 2009 | 9:38 am
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,985
Nov 23, 2009 | 9:45 am
#9
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 29,078
In Beirfeldt's case even though he was doing nothing illegal I suspect the way TSA conducted itself that had there been something illegal in the box that it would have been tainted.
And TSA didn't seem to want a trial on the merits.
I would consider adding Beirfeldt to the list.
And TSA didn't seem to want a trial on the merits.
I would consider adding Beirfeldt to the list.
amen to that ^
Nov 23, 2009 | 10:07 am
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,985
re beirfeldt: the tsa did violate the law by improperly applying the bank secrecy act. banks can get into some very serious trouble for not only filing incorrectly but for erroneous filings and this applies to anyone who tries to use the bank secrecy act as the basis for their actions.
amen to that ^
amen to that ^
The whole Bierfeldt deal was because someone at TSA HQ published a document classifying $10k+ cash as contraband.
Some low level TSA employee not knowing any better tried doing what they were told to do even while it violated a travelers rights.
TSA HQ should be held responsible for actions that exceed searching for WEI.
That's what happens when you have want-a-be cops operating with poorly conceived management directives.
Nov 23, 2009 | 1:37 pm
#11
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 29,078
I really doubt that your average TSA employee know anything about the BSA.
The whole Bierfeldt deal was because someone at TSA HQ published a document classifying $10k+ cash as contraband.
Some low level TSA employee not knowing any better tried doing what they were told to do even while it violated a travelers rights.
TSA HQ should be held responsible for actions that exceed searching for WEI.
That's what happens when you have want-a-be cops operating with poorly conceived management directives.
The whole Bierfeldt deal was because someone at TSA HQ published a document classifying $10k+ cash as contraband.
Some low level TSA employee not knowing any better tried doing what they were told to do even while it violated a travelers rights.
TSA HQ should be held responsible for actions that exceed searching for WEI.
That's what happens when you have want-a-be cops operating with poorly conceived management directives.
Nov 23, 2009 | 2:32 pm
#12
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: American Airlines, Delta Air Lines, Rapids Reward
Posts: 40,109
Nov 23, 2009 | 5:07 pm
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,678
a. Declare that the actions of Defendant’s agents described in this Complaint violated Plaintiff’s rights under the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution and exceeded her statutory authority;
b. Permanently enjoin Defendant, her officers, agents, servants, employees, and all persons in active concert or participation with her who receive actual notice of the injunction, from authorizing or conducting suspicionless pre-flight searches of passengers or their belongings for items other than weapons and explosives;
c. Award to Plaintiff his reasonable attorneys’ fees, costs, and expenses of litigation; and
d. Order such other relief as the Court may deem just and proper.
Had the ACLU asked for damages of some sort, there would have been a triable issue namely, how much should the award be. But in this case, the prayer for relief doesn't ask for anything that would require a trial.
Nov 23, 2009 | 8:12 pm
#14
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 72,265
I think that is a very real possibility. Based on what I've seen internally, TSA hasn't learned its lesson, and intends to continue pushing the envelope with regard to its authority - or lack thereof. No one with any clout inside of DHS or the WH seems interested in reining them in.
Nov 26, 2009 | 7:16 am
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,006
What I was looking for in this thread was basically a laundry list that we could refer back to where the TSA has lost or caused a case to be lost due to them over stepping their bounds.
The Ron Paul guy's case would fit in here but I don't know where to get the legal docs. If you have a link to the docs post it here.
The Ron Paul guy's case would fit in here but I don't know where to get the legal docs. If you have a link to the docs post it here.