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-   -   List of cases the TSA has blown with illegal behavior. (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1019764-list-cases-tsa-has-blown-illegal-behavior.html)

Trollkiller Nov 22, 2009 9:22 pm

List of cases the TSA has blown with illegal behavior.
 
I have been commenting on Carlos Miller's site about Phil's arrest and the forced ID verification policy. It occurred to me that we need a list of all the cases that the TSA has blown due to illegal behavior.

I would like the list to stay with cases that have already been ruled on or settled. I would like us to make links to the rulings when at all possible.

Fofana Ruling
McCarty Ruling

halls120 Nov 22, 2009 9:43 pm


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 12864413)
I have been commenting on Carlos Miller's site about Phil's arrest and the forced ID verification policy. It occurred to me that we need a list of all the cases that the TSA has blown due to illegal behavior.

I would like the list to stay with cases that have already been ruled on or settled. I would like us to make links to the rulings when at all possible.

Fofana Ruling
McCarty Ruling

As odious as the defendant might have been in the McCarty, the US District Judge clearly made the correct decision in suppressing the results of the search performed by TSA. It will be interesting to see what stance the government takes on appeal.

Ari Nov 22, 2009 9:56 pm


Originally Posted by halls120 (Post 12864509)
It will be interesting to see what stance the government takes on appeal.

Is the appeal a sure thing? In Fofana, they dropped the appeal (though they are trying to keep some other charges against him that they say don't require fruit of the posionous tree to prove-- I haven't checked how that one worked out, or if it has yet).

halls120 Nov 23, 2009 5:31 am


Originally Posted by Ari (Post 12864567)
Is the appeal a sure thing? In Fofana, they dropped the appeal (though they are trying to keep some other charges against him that they say don't require fruit of the posionous tree to prove-- I haven't checked how that one worked out, or if it has yet).

It depends. When the government loses a case, the SG doesn't automatically authorize an appeal. If the decision doesn't bind the government, or set a wide ranging precedent, they rarely will give an appeal the green light, because if we lose in the appellate arena, we could be worse off than if we just dropped the case at the district court level.

FliesWay2Much Nov 23, 2009 6:47 am


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 12864413)
I have been commenting on Carlos Miller's site about Phil's arrest and the forced ID verification policy. It occurred to me that we need a list of all the cases that the TSA has blown due to illegal behavior.

I would like the list to stay with cases that have already been ruled on or settled. I would like us to make links to the rulings when at all possible.

Fofana Ruling
McCarty Ruling

Actually, I'm hoping they continue to overstep their authority on a regular basis and get hauled into court on a regular basis. We want our Constitution back one way or the other.

Boggie Dog Nov 23, 2009 7:39 am


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 12864413)
I have been commenting on Carlos Miller's site about Phil's arrest and the forced ID verification policy. It occurred to me that we need a list of all the cases that the TSA has blown due to illegal behavior.

I would like the list to stay with cases that have already been ruled on or settled. I would like us to make links to the rulings when at all possible.

Fofana Ruling
McCarty Ruling

In Bierfeldt's case even though he was doing nothing illegal I suspect the way TSA conducted itself that had there been something illegal in the box that it would have been tainted.

And TSA didn't seem to want a trial on the merits.

I would consider adding Beirfeldt to the list.

Ari Nov 23, 2009 9:22 am


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 12866031)
And TSA didn't seem to want a trial on the merits.

There were no issues of material fact in dispute and no damages to be proven; why would there have been a trial?

Boggie Dog Nov 23, 2009 9:38 am


Originally Posted by Ari (Post 12866598)
There were no issues of material fact in dispute and no damages to be proven; why would there have been a trial?

ACUL filed suit. Had no agreement (settlement) been reached would not a trial have happened?

goalie Nov 23, 2009 9:45 am


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 12866031)
In Beirfeldt's case even though he was doing nothing illegal I suspect the way TSA conducted itself that had there been something illegal in the box that it would have been tainted.

And TSA didn't seem to want a trial on the merits.

I would consider adding Beirfeldt to the list.

re beirfeldt: the tsa did violate the law by improperly applying the bank secrecy act. banks can get into some very serious trouble for not only filing incorrectly but for erroneous filings and this applies to anyone who tries to use the bank secrecy act as the basis for their actions.


Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much (Post 12865837)
Actually, I'm hoping they continue to overstep their authority on a regular basis and get hauled into court on a regular basis. We want our Constitution back one way or the other.

amen to that ^

Boggie Dog Nov 23, 2009 10:07 am


Originally Posted by goalie (Post 12866744)
re beirfeldt: the tsa did violate the law by improperly applying the bank secrecy act. banks can get into some very serious trouble for not only filing incorrectly but for erroneous filings and this applies to anyone who tries to use the bank secrecy act as the basis for their actions.

amen to that ^

I really doubt that your average TSA employee know anything about the BSA.

The whole Bierfeldt deal was because someone at TSA HQ published a document classifying $10k+ cash as contraband.

Some low level TSA employee not knowing any better tried doing what they were told to do even while it violated a travelers rights.

TSA HQ should be held responsible for actions that exceed searching for WEI.

That's what happens when you have want-a-be cops operating with poorly conceived management directives.

goalie Nov 23, 2009 1:37 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 12866869)
I really doubt that your average TSA employee know anything about the BSA.

The whole Bierfeldt deal was because someone at TSA HQ published a document classifying $10k+ cash as contraband.

Some low level TSA employee not knowing any better tried doing what they were told to do even while it violated a travelers rights.

TSA HQ should be held responsible for actions that exceed searching for WEI.

That's what happens when you have want-a-be cops operating with poorly conceived management directives.

but, but, but...... :D

N830MH Nov 23, 2009 2:32 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 12866697)
ACUL filed suit. Had no agreement (settlement) been reached would not a trial have happened?

No, obviously not.

Ari Nov 23, 2009 5:07 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 12866697)
ACUL filed suit. Had no agreement (settlement) been reached would not a trial have happened?

Nope-- this one would have been all for the judges. Why? Just a matter of what the ACLU asked for:


a. Declare that the actions of Defendant’s agents described in this Complaint violated Plaintiff’s rights under the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution and exceeded her statutory authority;
Only a judge can declare something unconstitutional.


b. Permanently enjoin Defendant, her officers, agents, servants, employees, and all persons in active concert or participation with her who receive actual notice of the injunction, from authorizing or conducting suspicionless pre-flight searches of passengers or their belongings for items other than weapons and explosives;
No jury needed here . . . not a question of fact-- a legal question.


c. Award to Plaintiff his reasonable attorneys’ fees, costs, and expenses of litigation; and
The decision to award costs and in what amount lies with the judge.


d. Order such other relief as the Court may deem just and proper.
For the judge.

Had the ACLU asked for damages of some sort, there would have been a triable issue namely, how much should the award be. But in this case, the prayer for relief doesn't ask for anything that would require a trial.

halls120 Nov 23, 2009 8:12 pm


Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much (Post 12865837)
Actually, I'm hoping they continue to overstep their authority on a regular basis and get hauled into court on a regular basis. We want our Constitution back one way or the other.

I think that is a very real possibility. Based on what I've seen internally, TSA hasn't learned its lesson, and intends to continue pushing the envelope with regard to its authority - or lack thereof. No one with any clout inside of DHS or the WH seems interested in reining them in.

Trollkiller Nov 26, 2009 7:16 am

What I was looking for in this thread was basically a laundry list that we could refer back to where the TSA has lost or caused a case to be lost due to them over stepping their bounds.

The Ron Paul guy's case would fit in here but I don't know where to get the legal docs. If you have a link to the docs post it here.


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