star_world

And this from someone who I would have hoped at least understood the issue.

I sincerely hope you realise that this is a different point entirely. Shielded, aviation-rated equipment has nothing to do with a relatively unshielded consumer GSM phone.

Nice job, buddy Save your civil disobedience for your living room, spare the rest of us. Do you never...ever leave your seatbelt fastened either, just so they can't "control" you by keeping you pinned in your seat?

Yet again, another thread on this subject degenerates into "I'll do whatever I want, watch me" nonsense.

harper99

My phone is not GSM, and even GSM phones do not pose a safety risk...at WORST a little growl in a headset on very rare occasions IF they are making or receiving a call. Just being 'on' doesn't even do that. And NONE of the common consumer electronics interfere with critical cockpit systems as some people still claim with fear in their voice.

I apply safety standards I find reasonable. Yes I wear my belt as it makes sense. No I do not turn off my Verizon phone because it has zero safety impact.

Anything else?

thadocta

That is because the phone was constantly trying to find a cell to connect to, so the battery would have had greater demands on it.

Dave

KyRoamer

Hope you had a big bucket of minutes.

You want to go where?

Just a point on scientific observation - The mere fact that nothing happened on any one flight where a cell phone was left on is not scientific proof that a cell phone cannnot ever cause problems to a plane in-flight.

This is not to say that there isn't reasonable scientific evidence on this subject or that cell phones actually cause problems on planes - rather that all the anecdotes of people leaving cell phones turned on while flying does not constitute useful evidence.

AngryMiller

True, the old air search radar (ASR) had a tendency to set off the old style flashbulbs if you got too close to it. That being said, all of the avionics on board a commercial airliner had undergone significant EMI/RFI emissions and susceptibility testing at levels significantly above what should be commonly experienced by an aircraft either on the ground or in flight. The rub comes into play on poorly maintained aircraft (i.e RF shielding panels left off of avionics equipment) that a cell phone might cause some problems.

If you want to see how a cell phone might adversely effect electronics then put it on top of a clock radio and listen. Every few minutes you should hear a bit of noise, even with the radio off as the cell phone updates itself by connecting to a cell tower.

The airlines have their reasons for cell phones being off during flights and I'm willing to comply since it really isn't worth it for me to fight that fight. A couple hours of more of peace and quiet are more than worth it to me.

N965VJ

What about Airbus?

NY-FLA

Now that is funny.

FlyingHoustonian

I understand the issue completly (please show me a reply where I stated otherwise or noted that I was not talking about off the shelf tech???) and I have given the FAA feedback as part of a test team on various interference issues regarding devices being on during ILS approaches and other critical phases of flight. I have seen several of the test results both FAA, Military, and corporate. The public is safe; the sky is not falling.

The radios and planes I speak of flying in were NOT all shielded, infact I've flown in airplanes with cell phone transmitter boxes strapped to the inside and outside to transmit to GCI jungle stations in Ecuador and Colombia using off the shelf tech.

The point is their is no critical interference from ANY electronic source.

Ciao,
FH

mre5765

Cruising altitude between DEN/COS is 5000 ft or so above the ground. Sometimes when I am reading and composing offline for the 5 minutes I am allowed to (15 minute flight in the air), I notice I've forgotten to turn the radio off, and text, calls, and emails come in.

Yes let's go there.

In a plane with 200 pax, what are the odds that every pax has turned his phone off? Close to zero. If 99.9% of all pax turn their phone off, then the odds all 200 have are 0.999 ** 200, the odds at one did not, are 1 - 0.999 ** 200 = 18%. Considering the number of planes that fly every day, if there was even a remote risk to cell phones causing planes to crash, then they'll be crashing by the thousands every day.

I dutifully turn my blackberry off every flight, and I'd say 1/3 of the time the thing comes on. All it takes is light pressure on the red button. This is one of the reasons why it stays on vibrate; I don't want it ringing while in flight. There are dozens of blackberries and other candy bar phones on every flight.

star_world

There certainly is the potential for interference from any electronic source. That much is known. The only unknown is the probability of this occurring. The completion of a successful flight, or 10, or 1,000 does not prove the theory that it is "safe" in any way. There has been extensive research on the subject, with a wide variety of results from completely safe to slight risk.

But that is actually beside the point. Why would you feel the need to prove that it is safe (to yourself? to others?) by deliberately leaving your device(s) on. On the basis that it doesn't work anyway, what do you possibly have to gain from this? It's the attitude I don't get - I understand the engineering involved to an extremely detailed level.

Steph3n

i turn my phone off/airplane mode simply to save battery because searching sucks the battery down too fast..

FlyingHoustonian

Of course there [sic] can be interference, but not enough to cause problems with instruments to affect critical phases of flight. As others have noted, planes are not designed so that something like a cell phone could cause massive problems. Planes gets struck by lightning all the time; should we not fly in clouds?

I presume you is a second person plural and not a singular directed at me, as I said nothing of the sort. I understand the engineering to a detailed level as well-I'm glad you do also...

If you want to attack the OP's attitude as feckless or inane, go for it, but please do not claim "safety" as some catch-all for it.

Ciao,
FH

nd2010

It's not that cell phones get no signal in the air. On the contrary, they get too many strong signals in the air because the phone is in line of sight of hundreds of towers. The towers would reuse the same frequencies and that causes interference.

RadioGirl

"Shielded" aviation radios vs an "unshielded" GSM phone?? Radios (FlyingHoustonian's radios and GSM phones) work by transmitting radio energy. You can't shield the part that transmits energy or it doesn't work.

Uhh, no. Even when you're on the ground, your phone is typically in sight of several cell towers. Your phone keeps track of which towers (usually 3) have the strongest signals and uses one of those until it becomes necessary to switch to another, but the fact that it's in contact with more than one tower doesn't "cause interference."

You are partially right but for the wrong reason. The handover algorithms in mobile phones (how quickly they decide to change from one tower to another) assumes the phone is moving at car/train speed or slower. Moving from one cell to another at aircraft speed can cause dropouts. But not interference.