PAL crew not following SOP for rest time?
Feb 19, 2021, 5:05 am
#16
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2020
Programs: Qantas. Air NZ.
Posts: 15
Totally uncalled for reply from Often1 to a very reasonable question. I would beg the question how do you maintain all your FF programmes and manage to post on this forum 13 times every single day since 2010 ?
Feb 22, 2021, 12:57 am
#17
Join Date: May 2015
Location: South Florida
Programs: DL Skymiles KE Skypass
Posts: 2,363
Putting my $.02 in:
Being that the flight is coming to the USA, FAA regulations would have to be adhered to, or PAL would have their authority to operate to the USA banned as it was years ago due to safety issues. It is the same as B747-437B states in the USA. I used to transport many flight crew members to MIA or FLL that were commuting to another airport for their flights, both international and domestic. They usually aren't dressed in uniform for these flights, and when they arrive at their based airport, go to the employee lounge to change and freshen up.
Also, I may be wrong, but when the US Customs inspects the plane after the disembarkation of the passengers, it is my understanding that the crew are supposed to exit the aircraft while it is being inspected, and return while it is being cleaned. Please correct if I am wrong.
Being that the flight is coming to the USA, FAA regulations would have to be adhered to, or PAL would have their authority to operate to the USA banned as it was years ago due to safety issues. It is the same as B747-437B states in the USA. I used to transport many flight crew members to MIA or FLL that were commuting to another airport for their flights, both international and domestic. They usually aren't dressed in uniform for these flights, and when they arrive at their based airport, go to the employee lounge to change and freshen up.
Also, I may be wrong, but when the US Customs inspects the plane after the disembarkation of the passengers, it is my understanding that the crew are supposed to exit the aircraft while it is being inspected, and return while it is being cleaned. Please correct if I am wrong.
Feb 22, 2021, 1:59 pm
#18
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Exile
Posts: 15,656
No, that is not the case in the issue of FDTL. Each individual CAA manages their own regulations as per ICAO standards and the FAA simply audits them against those as part of the IASA program.
Feb 22, 2021, 4:42 pm
#19
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Auckland
Programs: NZ Elite Partner/Silver (in own right), PR Classic, QF Bronze, UA Member, VA Red
Posts: 1,551
all the "snide" postings aside, my issue would be as a passenger and I knew this practice was happening would I feel comfortable getting on plane when the crew had deadheaded for such a long period - the answer would be NO. But then, we don't know when this happens - so we never make an informed decision.
I know a couple of Sleep researchers and the practices of airlines do vary considerably and interesting there are some airlines they would not fly.
I know a couple of Sleep researchers and the practices of airlines do vary considerably and interesting there are some airlines they would not fly.
Feb 28, 2021, 7:43 pm
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,557
This has become extremely frequent on many airlines, given the constraints imposed on crews by many countries.
For example BA has been flying to HKG keeping the 14-seat F class cabin for the second crew. LX, QR, EK also use two crews and no crew sets their feet on HK ground. Other longhaul airlines imply do not fly to HKG anymore.
But foreign regional airlines can do a turnaround in HKG with the same crew.
For example BA has been flying to HKG keeping the 14-seat F class cabin for the second crew. LX, QR, EK also use two crews and no crew sets their feet on HK ground. Other longhaul airlines imply do not fly to HKG anymore.
But foreign regional airlines can do a turnaround in HKG with the same crew.
Mar 1, 2021, 10:15 am
#21
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: Flying Blue, Miles & Smiles
Posts: 467
Sadly, the choice is thus:
1) Airline accepts that crews lands (crosses immigration) and thus must comply with the national quarantine rules AND the consequences of any sickness developed in the 3rd country. In Hong Kong - this is 3 weeks at the moment. Not happening. And I don't think crews would agree even if asked.
2) Airline stops flying, so nobody can use that flight (take MNL-LHR for example). Crews are now out of work. Passengers are stranded.
3) Airline expects crew to rest on the plane, either having the rest period on the plane for 1 crew or uses 2 crews, one for each leg.
I find that the situation described is a rather pragmatic response when the alternatives are considered. Not shocking. Not impossible, but surprisingly pragmatic (surprising given the bureaucracy of PAL and the border policy of the Philippines).
Travel is really difficult in and out of PHL these days (especially if you don't live in NCR region like me). While PAL's idea of service is just a joke of comedic errors, your friends should be grateful that PAL found a way to get them to LAX.
1) Airline accepts that crews lands (crosses immigration) and thus must comply with the national quarantine rules AND the consequences of any sickness developed in the 3rd country. In Hong Kong - this is 3 weeks at the moment. Not happening. And I don't think crews would agree even if asked.
2) Airline stops flying, so nobody can use that flight (take MNL-LHR for example). Crews are now out of work. Passengers are stranded.
3) Airline expects crew to rest on the plane, either having the rest period on the plane for 1 crew or uses 2 crews, one for each leg.
I find that the situation described is a rather pragmatic response when the alternatives are considered. Not shocking. Not impossible, but surprisingly pragmatic (surprising given the bureaucracy of PAL and the border policy of the Philippines).
Travel is really difficult in and out of PHL these days (especially if you don't live in NCR region like me). While PAL's idea of service is just a joke of comedic errors, your friends should be grateful that PAL found a way to get them to LAX.
Mar 7, 2021, 3:27 am
#22
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,406
Sadly, the choice is thus:
1) Airline accepts that crews lands (crosses immigration) and thus must comply with the national quarantine rules AND the consequences of any sickness developed in the 3rd country. In Hong Kong - this is 3 weeks at the moment. Not happening. And I don't think crews would agree even if asked.
2) Airline stops flying, so nobody can use that flight (take MNL-LHR for example). Crews are now out of work. Passengers are stranded.
3) Airline expects crew to rest on the plane, either having the rest period on the plane for 1 crew or uses 2 crews, one for each leg.
I find that the situation described is a rather pragmatic response when the alternatives are considered. Not shocking. Not impossible, but surprisingly pragmatic (surprising given the bureaucracy of PAL and the border policy of the Philippines).
Travel is really difficult in and out of PHL these days (especially if you don't live in NCR region like me). While PAL's idea of service is just a joke of comedic errors, your friends should be grateful that PAL found a way to get them to LAX.
1) Airline accepts that crews lands (crosses immigration) and thus must comply with the national quarantine rules AND the consequences of any sickness developed in the 3rd country. In Hong Kong - this is 3 weeks at the moment. Not happening. And I don't think crews would agree even if asked.
2) Airline stops flying, so nobody can use that flight (take MNL-LHR for example). Crews are now out of work. Passengers are stranded.
3) Airline expects crew to rest on the plane, either having the rest period on the plane for 1 crew or uses 2 crews, one for each leg.
I find that the situation described is a rather pragmatic response when the alternatives are considered. Not shocking. Not impossible, but surprisingly pragmatic (surprising given the bureaucracy of PAL and the border policy of the Philippines).
Travel is really difficult in and out of PHL these days (especially if you don't live in NCR region like me). While PAL's idea of service is just a joke of comedic errors, your friends should be grateful that PAL found a way to get them to LAX.
As for the safety element... yes, I'd be happier with 'fresh' crews, properly rested. However, plenty of stories from pilots and crews who say that even when they go to a hotel they are so jetlagged they don't sleep properly anyway. So what's worse? Arrive, have to pass immigration, bus to the hotel, check-in, can't sleep anyway, and do the whole process in reverse before flying onwards. Or arrive after 12 hours, don't have any of the mucking around, and return back to home?
Mar 12, 2021, 9:41 pm
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAS/FCO/JFK/LAX
Programs: DL DM/2MM, BA GGL/CCR,/GFL, A3 Gold, JBU Mosaic, ITA Executive, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 305
Sadly, the choice is thus:
1) Airline accepts that crews lands (crosses immigration) and thus must comply with the national quarantine rules AND the consequences of any sickness developed in the 3rd country. In Hong Kong - this is 3 weeks at the moment. Not happening. And I don't think crews would agree even if asked.
2) Airline stops flying, so nobody can use that flight (take MNL-LHR for example). Crews are now out of work. Passengers are stranded.
3) Airline expects crew to rest on the plane, either having the rest period on the plane for 1 crew or uses 2 crews, one for each leg.
I find that the situation described is a rather pragmatic response when the alternatives are considered. Not shocking. Not impossible, but surprisingly pragmatic (surprising given the bureaucracy of PAL and the border policy of the Philippines).
Travel is really difficult in and out of PHL these days (especially if you don't live in NCR region like me). While PAL's idea of service is just a joke of comedic errors, your friends should be grateful that PAL found a way to get them to LAX.
1) Airline accepts that crews lands (crosses immigration) and thus must comply with the national quarantine rules AND the consequences of any sickness developed in the 3rd country. In Hong Kong - this is 3 weeks at the moment. Not happening. And I don't think crews would agree even if asked.
2) Airline stops flying, so nobody can use that flight (take MNL-LHR for example). Crews are now out of work. Passengers are stranded.
3) Airline expects crew to rest on the plane, either having the rest period on the plane for 1 crew or uses 2 crews, one for each leg.
I find that the situation described is a rather pragmatic response when the alternatives are considered. Not shocking. Not impossible, but surprisingly pragmatic (surprising given the bureaucracy of PAL and the border policy of the Philippines).
Travel is really difficult in and out of PHL these days (especially if you don't live in NCR region like me). While PAL's idea of service is just a joke of comedic errors, your friends should be grateful that PAL found a way to get them to LAX.