PAL crew not following SOP for rest time?
 

Two friends have reported to me, on separate MNL-LAX flights this past month, seeing an entire set of crew sitting in the semi-empty J arriving from MNL and changing from regular clothes to uniform right before arrival, ‘to operate the return flight’
While my friends were shocked about the fact that ‘they can’t even shower’ i pointed out that it would not be allowed
I wouldn’t even think of believing their stories if they weren’t one a very frequent flyer and the otherp a former airline employee...does anyone have info if this is allowed? I am sure it’s impossible

During last year this was happening to avoid crew layovers and risking getting infected

That's very possible with the current Covid problems. Fly with 2 crews, so they don't have to stay overseas.

Why would this violate crew rest requirements?

I admittedly don’t know the requirements in detail and I am sure there are provisions for emergent situations (not lasting one year, tho)
It would seem odd tho that crew flies for 15-16 hours straight as pax and without even refreshing at hotel sit at the helm of a 777 or 350 for another 14-16 hours
And, for the Fa, a tour of duty of 36-40 consecutive hrs?
A surgical residency, perhaps?

I think this a totally accepted practice. And it might become even more common with countries imposing quarantine on aircrews....

That is the key. You started a thread about something you were told by someone else about a topic where you do not know the rules.

What you are referring to, if it has been accurately portrayed by the friends, is entirely common and I cannot think of why any civil aviation authority would require a hotel as opposed to a bed on an aircraft.

Whether the work conditions are what one would desire is a different issue and that of course is a matter for the employees to deal with.

Dear often1,
In your well deserved grandeur of being a flyertalk posting legend you seem to forget for a second that one of the reasons why people post and start a thread is because they do not exactly know the rules/facts and they ask information about something they heard but might not have experienced first hand.
So, the KEY, as you say (don’t worry, I have a somewhat logical mind as well, it’s not your exclusive) is I am asking a question in a dubitative form (hence the question mark) and if you want to help providing an answer provide that answer with and do not chastise people for opening a thread on something they don’t quite know.
On the specific matter, regulations or not I would feel less safe flying with a crew that didn’t even get a decent bed rest and has to work in those conditions and I fully sympathize with them getting that type of accomodation
On the matter of your answers, I promise you that I’ll never try to beat you in number of posts, all of 2 million of those posts which I am sure are perfectly informed and filled of your first hand information

In this specific case, I cite CAAP CAR 8.11.1.4 (a) which explicitly states :

The Authority will consider all time spent on an aircraft as an assigned flight crew member or relief flight crew member, whether resting or performing tasks, to be duty aloft.

In response to the OP, while standard CAAP CARs would not permit this kind of operation, presumably PAL has obtained approval for a FRMS based FDTL system which could enable this kind of operation under specific conditions. In current pandemic circumstances, this is actually fairly common and is usually mitigated by additional rest periods both pre- and post- flight to compensate.

i suspect the defence is that they’re not an assigned flight crew member or a relief flight crew member on the deadheading leg

Do you wonder why you come to FT to ask questions, when you look at some responses? 😟

While off-putting, the practice you described is probably not illegal.

There is no need for a "defence" as there is no prima-facie evidence of a violation. It is perfectly acceptable to apply for and receive a variance from the standard limitations by implementing a FRMS (Fatigue Risk Management System) that addresses and mitigates the additional duty time of an extended operation.

Notwithstanding the above, 8.11.1.3(b)(4) explicitly denies that "defence" :)

Time spent in deadhead transportation, that an operator requires of a flight crew member and provides to transport the crew member to an airport... at which he/she is to serve on a flight as a crew member... is not considered part of a rest period.

🤣🤣 those crafty CAA types think of everything 😉

i know, some people like to make you feel like you’re an idiot for asking a question but that’s part of the fun of the forum

I am glad it ain’t so obvious then
thanks for checking, this remains interesting