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Old Jul 10, 18, 2:44 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri View Post
which top owners/operators require card for charter?

NetJets, Flexjet, PlaneSense you need a fractional share or jet card - they don't do one off charters.

which own/operator largest fleets?
The biggest fleet operators would be Netjets/EJM (650+), Flexjet/Flight Options (200ish), Jet Linx, Jet Aviation - all over 100 - then around 80: VistaJet, Wheels Up and Delta Private Jets... XOJET and TMC are around 40 I think.
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Old Jul 10, 18, 3:17 pm
  #32  
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EJM charters on their fleet?
previously didnt marquisjet charter?
cant recall, ive forgotten corporate histories

flight options bought flexjet from bombardier

maybe also sentient and skyjet
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Old Jul 10, 18, 7:51 pm
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri View Post
EJM charters on their fleet?
previously didnt marquisjet charter?
cant recall, ive forgotten corporate histories

flight options bought flexjet from bombardier

maybe also sentient and skyjet

Marquis Jet bought fractional shares on NetJets and resold them in 25 hour cards - no one off charters. NetJets bought them around 2010.

Yes on Flight Options - although they are now phasing it out and seem to be focused on Flexjet and Sentient. I think Flight Options was shares in used aircraft or it was at one point.

EJM charters - They manage aircraft for owners - not sure how many are available for charter.
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Old Jul 11, 18, 2:15 am
  #34  
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Which companies have the best reputation and fleet of owned aircraft and will do charter flights within the US?

Will any company with an excellent reputation and fleet of owned aircraft do charter flights between the US and Europe for less than VistaJet's ~$15k/hour?
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Old Jul 11, 18, 7:27 am
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by flyertalkrocks View Post
Which companies have the best reputation and fleet of owned aircraft and will do charter flights within the US?

Will any company with an excellent reputation and fleet of owned aircraft do charter flights between the US and Europe for less than VistaJet's ~$15k/hour?
There are three safety ratings a lot of operators use - IS-BAO, AR-GUS and Wyvern. The top level is IS-BAO Stage 3, AR-GUS Platinum and Wyvern Wingman. When you look at the safety section of their websites or even on the home page many operators list whichever programs they have - and level.

Most fleets from what I know are either owned by the fractional share owners (NetJets, Flexjet) or managed. The owned fleets coming to mind and available for charter would be TMC, XOJET and JetSuite. Wheels Up would go in there too if you pay their 17.5k membership fee - Then you just pay for each flight like charter. None of them have large cabin jets like VistaJet.

Last edited by Nicoolio; Jul 11, 18 at 7:33 am
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Old Jul 11, 18, 11:38 am
  #36  
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I'm surprised but it sounds like VistaJet is the only high profile operator that can do TATL charter flights.

Any favorites amongst the choices for domestic flights? I'm leaning toward XOJets but I haven't looked closely at pricing.

Could you elaborate on what "managed" means above?
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Old Jul 11, 18, 3:31 pm
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Originally Posted by flyertalkrocks View Post
I'm surprised but it sounds like VistaJet is the only high profile operator that can do TATL charter flights.

Any favorites amongst the choices for domestic flights? I'm leaning toward XOJets but I haven't looked closely at pricing.

Could you elaborate on what "managed" means above?
Managed means that the operator (who hires the pilots, does most maintenance and operates the aircraft) manages the plane for an owner who doesn't want to self manage it which would mean setting up your own flight department. Jet Aviation, Jet Edge, Priester, Presidential (mentioned in the Aura thread), Jet Linx, Delta Private Jets are all examples of management companies. So is GAMA which manages and operates the Wheels Up fleet.

You can buy a 25 hours Gulfstream GIV card from NetJets if you want to fly TATL to avoid ferry fees and some of the other charges that go with charter. It might need a fuel stop westbound or depending on where you are flying to and from.

XOJET only owns super midsize jets - so it depends where you want to fly? How many people? Nicholas Air is another with its own fleet. If you are planning mid-Cont type flights in the US JetSuite or Nicholas Air would be worth a look IMO. They have Light Jets - I love the Challenger 300 (which XO has) but depending on where you are going, how many people, it might be paying more than you need to -- probably around 9k per hour compared to 5-6k.

PS - Lot's of operators with aircraft that can do TATL - however, they are mainly managed - not owned aircraft.
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Old Jul 12, 18, 2:30 am
  #38  
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I looked at NicholasAir but it doesn't look like they do charter.

Does charter always charge a ferry fee for TATL? Even a company like VistaJet?

Does JetSuite have a newer fleet?

These are some very(!) rough numbers I've come up with:

Short flights:
Managed charter: $5000/hr
JetSuite charter: $6500/hr
FlexJet card: $7500/hr
NetJets card: $8500/hr
VistaJet charter/card: $10000/hr

TATL flights:
Managed charter: $10000/hrFlexJet card: $13000/hr
NetJets card: $17000/hr
VistaJet charter/card: $15000/hr

I'm not sure how I feel about managed charter yet. I'd rather not put a broker between me and the operator which I think would be required to get the low rates above, although I'm experimenting with jetmembership.com to book directly. Also aircraft quality seems to tend toward the low side with inexpensive managed charter.

Jetsuite I need to gather more info on aircraft quality and overall quality/reliability of service.

FlexJet and NetJets are not ideal for me because you have to buy a jet card and tie up your money way in advance.

Overall VistaJet looks pretty good for TATL given that they'll charter, their aircraft is owned and its quality/age is said to be the best in the business, and they supposedly provide a high level of service.

For short flights VistaJet is a lot more expensive than the others but their smallest jet is a super-mid and I believe the others are light.
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Old Jul 13, 18, 4:00 am
  #39  
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jetmembership.com just sent me a crazy low quote from ixair.com. They're based in France and I don't think they're registered with Argus or Wyvern but the aircraft is very large and rather new. Is it wise to insist on Argus/Wyvern even if it means flying a smaller and older aircraft?
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Old Jul 14, 18, 9:45 am
  #40  
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Originally Posted by WhyPrivate View Post
broker pushing 100% cancellation when that may not be the actual operator terms is nonsense.

As I was waiting on hold (or so they thought) I overheard their conversation with the manager on duty about "how much do you think he will pay? we don't owe the operator anything" .... then a slimy sounding voice said this exactly: "f*ck this guy, he has the money, don't give him a thing"
common in all industries, where middeman could get refund from operator while keeping client's money, likely many selling high prices have similar attitudes as well, without regard for reality especially in charters

like claiming bank transfer is to avoid credit card fee, no it is to avoid credit card dispute chargeback, someone on FT saw this first hand with a company that was claiming to not be a middle man, and i seem to recall kind of PR type stuff about how theyre not middle man, seems most things are just PR
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Old Jul 14, 18, 2:36 pm
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interesting...

Originally Posted by WhyPrivate View Post
Call me a dinosaur, but I insist on keeping the cash in my pocket as long as I can. msm2 got stuck on a classic airplane when he paid for a new one and I've been duped by a dishonest broker in the past.
...
As I was waiting on hold (or so they thought) I overheard their conversation with the manager on duty about "how much do you think he will pay? we don't owe the operator anything" .... then a slimy sounding voice said this exactly: "f*ck this guy, he has the money, don't give him a thing" after a moment, a woman handling my flight who was nothing but polite to me while quoting and booking the trip came back on the phone to say "i'm sorry but the operator is not able to budge, I will try my best to get you a flight credit on your next flight". When telling her that I overheard the entire conversation I could hear her mouth drop the floor. I repeated word for work "f*uck this guy?" "is that how you talk about your customers?" and again was followed with silence. "please have the funds back in my account by close of business tomorrow" i said, and hung up the phone, infuriated.

Surprisingly, the money was back in my account the next day. Soon followed with apology voicemails and emails which I did not respond to.

Moral of the story, only sign up for the operator's terms because realistically I signed a document which said they could keep all of the money.. and they would have if they remembered to press the mute button on their phone.
... I have experienced similar. Would you consider private messaging me and sharing who it was?
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Old Jul 18, 18, 11:12 am
  #42  
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Originally Posted by aero_plane View Post
... I have experienced similar. Would you consider private messaging me and sharing who it was?
I'd rather not. It's water under the bridge and I stopped using brokers. jetmembership.com gives me a list of every operator price without the mark up, hidden tail numbers or sales pitch and I sign the operator contract directly.
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Old Aug 8, 18, 8:07 am
  #43  
 
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FlyEasy will also provide operator direct pricing without signing up or pay membership fees - Search for OpenPoint / FlyEasy

Last edited by Frequentlyflown; Aug 8, 18 at 8:19 am
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