Tried flyvictor.com?
Jul 10, 2018, 1:44 pm
#31
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 557
The biggest fleet operators would be Netjets/EJM (650+), Flexjet/Flight Options (200ish), Jet Linx, Jet Aviation - all over 100 - then around 80: VistaJet, Wheels Up and Delta Private Jets... XOJET and TMC are around 40 I think.
Jul 10, 2018, 6:51 pm
#33
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 557
Marquis Jet bought fractional shares on NetJets and resold them in 25 hour cards - no one off charters. NetJets bought them around 2010.
Yes on Flight Options - although they are now phasing it out and seem to be focused on Flexjet and Sentient. I think Flight Options was shares in used aircraft or it was at one point.
EJM charters - They manage aircraft for owners - not sure how many are available for charter.
Jul 11, 2018, 1:15 am
#34
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 204
Which companies have the best reputation and fleet of owned aircraft and will do charter flights within the US?
Will any company with an excellent reputation and fleet of owned aircraft do charter flights between the US and Europe for less than VistaJet's ~$15k/hour?
Will any company with an excellent reputation and fleet of owned aircraft do charter flights between the US and Europe for less than VistaJet's ~$15k/hour?
Jul 11, 2018, 6:27 am
#35
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 557
Which companies have the best reputation and fleet of owned aircraft and will do charter flights within the US?
Will any company with an excellent reputation and fleet of owned aircraft do charter flights between the US and Europe for less than VistaJet's ~$15k/hour?
Will any company with an excellent reputation and fleet of owned aircraft do charter flights between the US and Europe for less than VistaJet's ~$15k/hour?
Most fleets from what I know are either owned by the fractional share owners (NetJets, Flexjet) or managed. The owned fleets coming to mind and available for charter would be TMC, XOJET and JetSuite. Wheels Up would go in there too if you pay their 17.5k membership fee - Then you just pay for each flight like charter. None of them have large cabin jets like VistaJet.
Last edited by Nicoolio; Jul 11, 2018 at 6:33 am
Jul 11, 2018, 10:38 am
#36
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 204
I'm surprised but it sounds like VistaJet is the only high profile operator that can do TATL charter flights.
Any favorites amongst the choices for domestic flights? I'm leaning toward XOJets but I haven't looked closely at pricing.
Could you elaborate on what "managed" means above?
Any favorites amongst the choices for domestic flights? I'm leaning toward XOJets but I haven't looked closely at pricing.
Could you elaborate on what "managed" means above?
Jul 11, 2018, 2:31 pm
#37
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 557
I'm surprised but it sounds like VistaJet is the only high profile operator that can do TATL charter flights.
Any favorites amongst the choices for domestic flights? I'm leaning toward XOJets but I haven't looked closely at pricing.
Could you elaborate on what "managed" means above?
Any favorites amongst the choices for domestic flights? I'm leaning toward XOJets but I haven't looked closely at pricing.
Could you elaborate on what "managed" means above?
You can buy a 25 hours Gulfstream GIV card from NetJets if you want to fly TATL to avoid ferry fees and some of the other charges that go with charter. It might need a fuel stop westbound or depending on where you are flying to and from.
XOJET only owns super midsize jets - so it depends where you want to fly? How many people? Nicholas Air is another with its own fleet. If you are planning mid-Cont type flights in the US JetSuite or Nicholas Air would be worth a look IMO. They have Light Jets - I love the Challenger 300 (which XO has) but depending on where you are going, how many people, it might be paying more than you need to -- probably around 9k per hour compared to 5-6k.
PS - Lot's of operators with aircraft that can do TATL - however, they are mainly managed - not owned aircraft.
Jul 12, 2018, 1:30 am
#38
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 204
I looked at NicholasAir but it doesn't look like they do charter.
Does charter always charge a ferry fee for TATL? Even a company like VistaJet?
Does JetSuite have a newer fleet?
These are some very(!) rough numbers I've come up with:
Short flights:
Managed charter: $5000/hr
JetSuite charter: $6500/hr
Does charter always charge a ferry fee for TATL? Even a company like VistaJet?
Does JetSuite have a newer fleet?
These are some very(!) rough numbers I've come up with:
Short flights:
Managed charter: $5000/hr
JetSuite charter: $6500/hr
FlexJet card: $7500/hr
NetJets card: $8500/hr
VistaJet charter/card: $10000/hr
TATL flights:
Managed charter: $10000/hrFlexJet card: $13000/hr
NetJets card: $17000/hr
VistaJet charter/card: $15000/hr
I'm not sure how I feel about managed charter yet. I'd rather not put a broker between me and the operator which I think would be required to get the low rates above, although I'm experimenting with jetmembership.com to book directly. Also aircraft quality seems to tend toward the low side with inexpensive managed charter.
Jetsuite I need to gather more info on aircraft quality and overall quality/reliability of service.
FlexJet and NetJets are not ideal for me because you have to buy a jet card and tie up your money way in advance.
Overall VistaJet looks pretty good for TATL given that they'll charter, their aircraft is owned and its quality/age is said to be the best in the business, and they supposedly provide a high level of service.
For short flights VistaJet is a lot more expensive than the others but their smallest jet is a super-mid and I believe the others are light.
NetJets card: $8500/hr
VistaJet charter/card: $10000/hr
TATL flights:
Managed charter: $10000/hrFlexJet card: $13000/hr
NetJets card: $17000/hr
VistaJet charter/card: $15000/hr
I'm not sure how I feel about managed charter yet. I'd rather not put a broker between me and the operator which I think would be required to get the low rates above, although I'm experimenting with jetmembership.com to book directly. Also aircraft quality seems to tend toward the low side with inexpensive managed charter.
Jetsuite I need to gather more info on aircraft quality and overall quality/reliability of service.
FlexJet and NetJets are not ideal for me because you have to buy a jet card and tie up your money way in advance.
Overall VistaJet looks pretty good for TATL given that they'll charter, their aircraft is owned and its quality/age is said to be the best in the business, and they supposedly provide a high level of service.
For short flights VistaJet is a lot more expensive than the others but their smallest jet is a super-mid and I believe the others are light.
Jul 13, 2018, 3:00 am
#39
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 204
jetmembership.com just sent me a crazy low quote from ixair.com. They're based in France and I don't think they're registered with Argus or Wyvern but the aircraft is very large and rather new. Is it wise to insist on Argus/Wyvern even if it means flying a smaller and older aircraft?
Jul 14, 2018, 8:45 am
#40
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
broker pushing 100% cancellation when that may not be the actual operator terms is nonsense.
As I was waiting on hold (or so they thought) I overheard their conversation with the manager on duty about "how much do you think he will pay? we don't owe the operator anything" .... then a slimy sounding voice said this exactly: "f*ck this guy, he has the money, don't give him a thing"
As I was waiting on hold (or so they thought) I overheard their conversation with the manager on duty about "how much do you think he will pay? we don't owe the operator anything" .... then a slimy sounding voice said this exactly: "f*ck this guy, he has the money, don't give him a thing"
like claiming bank transfer is to avoid credit card fee, no it is to avoid credit card dispute chargeback, someone on FT saw this first hand with a company that was claiming to not be a middle man, and i seem to recall kind of PR type stuff about how theyre not middle man, seems most things are just PR
Jul 14, 2018, 1:36 pm
#41
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1
interesting...
Call me a dinosaur, but I insist on keeping the cash in my pocket as long as I can. msm2 got stuck on a classic airplane when he paid for a new one and I've been duped by a dishonest broker in the past.
...
As I was waiting on hold (or so they thought) I overheard their conversation with the manager on duty about "how much do you think he will pay? we don't owe the operator anything" .... then a slimy sounding voice said this exactly: "f*ck this guy, he has the money, don't give him a thing" after a moment, a woman handling my flight who was nothing but polite to me while quoting and booking the trip came back on the phone to say "i'm sorry but the operator is not able to budge, I will try my best to get you a flight credit on your next flight". When telling her that I overheard the entire conversation I could hear her mouth drop the floor. I repeated word for work "f*uck this guy?" "is that how you talk about your customers?" and again was followed with silence. "please have the funds back in my account by close of business tomorrow" i said, and hung up the phone, infuriated.
Surprisingly, the money was back in my account the next day. Soon followed with apology voicemails and emails which I did not respond to.
Moral of the story, only sign up for the operator's terms because realistically I signed a document which said they could keep all of the money.. and they would have if they remembered to press the mute button on their phone.
...
As I was waiting on hold (or so they thought) I overheard their conversation with the manager on duty about "how much do you think he will pay? we don't owe the operator anything" .... then a slimy sounding voice said this exactly: "f*ck this guy, he has the money, don't give him a thing" after a moment, a woman handling my flight who was nothing but polite to me while quoting and booking the trip came back on the phone to say "i'm sorry but the operator is not able to budge, I will try my best to get you a flight credit on your next flight". When telling her that I overheard the entire conversation I could hear her mouth drop the floor. I repeated word for work "f*uck this guy?" "is that how you talk about your customers?" and again was followed with silence. "please have the funds back in my account by close of business tomorrow" i said, and hung up the phone, infuriated.
Surprisingly, the money was back in my account the next day. Soon followed with apology voicemails and emails which I did not respond to.
Moral of the story, only sign up for the operator's terms because realistically I signed a document which said they could keep all of the money.. and they would have if they remembered to press the mute button on their phone.
Jul 18, 2018, 10:12 am
#42
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: AMEX Centurion, Inspirato, jetmembership.com, Mandarin Oriental, Hertz Gold Plus
Posts: 91
I'd rather not. It's water under the bridge and I stopped using brokers. jetmembership.com gives me a list of every operator price without the mark up, hidden tail numbers or sales pitch and I sign the operator contract directly.