Randy (and all),

I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this, so if it isn't, I hope a moderator will move it.

Over the past couple of months, I have become concerned about what seems to be a tremendous rise in the level of hostility on several of the boards, including the airline and hotel boards. Sarcastic responses seem to have become the norm when an OP asks a question that the general membership does not find to be worthy, and responses are often something along the lines of "Do a search, that's been answered a thousand times." If I were a newbie, I would be scared to ask a question for fear of being ridiculed. I understand that different personalities address questions different ways, but I have definitely noticed an increase of "tough" responses over the past year. If you want, I will follow up and point out some individual threads.

In any case, I'm not trying to sound all high and mighty, but maybe it would be time to send out a friendly reminder about the mission of FT. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest!

Mike

The reasons for this have been exhaustively debated and documented.

Good example! ^

Interestingly, we seem to be waffling back and forth between those complaining about the volume of newbies and those complaining about rudeness to newbies.

For example, this thread from August is about FT bring too newbie-friendly, while this thread starts with complaints about the signal-to-noise ratio and eventually goes off on a tangent about how to respond to newbie questions.

I'm pretty sure there are at least a couple other recent (recent = last 6 mos) threads about these issues, too.

I guess we are back to "be nice to newbies"?

From a personal standpoint, as I've stated before, the few times I actually happen to be in the right place at the right time, I try to point newbies in the right direction in a polite manner.

I think it is conceptually important to distinguish between newbies and trolls.

I personally find the "search" response to be inappropriate in almost *every* circumstance. I have been here longer than just about anyone else (I just noticed that I have the same "Join Date" as Randy, so I guess that confims "longer than just about anyone else"), and I generally don't use search. Now, because I have been here so long, I think I know many of the answers to the basic questions. But on the occasions when I do use search I don't find it to be 100% effective, and if you don't know the right "key" words, your chances of finding the information you want are substantially lower. People who don't like stupid newbie questions shouldn't answer stupid newbie questions, IMO. Saying "Use 'search'" takes *more* time and requires me to read a longer thread before I see whether there is a real answer.

On the other hand we have the trolls/repeat posters. I personally think that the instance of trolls is lower than what it might appear from some members comments. Are there troll postings? Yes. But I see a lot of other postings which are labeled as "troll" because a certain group of loyalists in a certain forum don't appreciate what they perceive as "attacks." But, in some circumstances, it is my opinion that they are potentially legitimate complaints. And even if the OP is a troll, the discussion which follows can actually have substantial value and interest.

By the way, that is an important concept. Did I mention that one of the reasons I look at this board several times a day, for several years, is because I find it interesting? Do I want substantive info? Sure. But I don't come here several times a day expecting to find new facts every time. Many of my visits are in the hopes that I will be entertained or challenged or excited by something dealing with one of my favorite subjects - travel.

Yes, sometimes feeding the trolls is fun! You never know, they might have a valid point.

Like sbrower, I have been here for a long, long time, but I never find newbie questions boring or irrelevant. I am always thrilled to help.

We were all newbies once. Even in the very beginning there were some posters who knew a lot and some of us who knew very little. Those who knew a lot were generous and polite to even the most ignorant original newbie (count me in that group). They really held our hands and walked us along the path to mega miles and points. Through their kindness and generosity, I accomplished all of my mile and point goals, and now sit on an admirable stash of miles and points that would last even the most avid traveler a lifetime. ^ ^

I am certain that, if I had been greeted with a "do a search" response in my first few months on FlyerTalk, I would have simply gone away and never come back.

Kindness, generosity are, in the end, worth even more than miles and points.

I tend to take a middle road with "newbie" questions. I don't mind answering them when the chance arises, but I also like to let them know that there is a search capability. And that searching opens one to a lot more information than just asking the question.

So I tend to answer the question and then let the poster know that they can find more information by searching for themselves.

I do agree with the OP that there are definitely some forums that are more, lets say brusque, with their answers. Personally, I think the use of sarcasm in answering a new FTers question is almost always uncalled for. It will usually be taken by the OP as an attack. And will quite often then degrade the thread into a "namecalling" match.

Tough.

Personally, I don't think it's too much to expect newcomers to take a few minutes after enrolling to walk through a forum's stickies as they are more often than not an invaluable place to start as many of the common questions are answered all in one place. The BA forum's Ultimate BA Guide springs to mind as being one example.

I will have to plead guilty to not welcoming newcomers at times and in places in the past but resolved a while back to exhibit a kinder, gentler attitude to recent arrivals to these online shores.

I'm an advocate (and frequent vocal proponent) of the "search" function. I almost invariably do the search using very simple terms that come from the OPs title or post to show just how easy it is (recent example- post about the "new" upgrade copay for AA flights to Hawaii where the OP said that search did not find anything....guess what, search terms "upgrade hawaii" brought up a 187-post thread from several weeks ago with much information).

Sure, we could answer the questions each and every time. Then, when someone actually does try to look for themselves, and not just expect everyone else to do their work for them, they find a few dozen really short, almost useless threads. Why is fragmenting the information a good thing? Clearly, it must be since not advocating searach is directly inviting that.

I'd be interested to hear how those who just answer without suggesting search feel that this distribution of the same information in a larger number of threads helps, because I just don't get it.

Cheers.

Excellent example. I know virtually nothing about BA, as an AA flyer. Well, I was flying BA and went there to get some info. I spent some time and found out how to OLCI for international flights (had no idea I could do that there). I even found a way to "beat the system" and join BAEC without earning a single tier point (and figured out what a tier point was). I didn't feel I should post to ask about it when the information was readilly available.

Newbies may be ner here, but unlikely new to computer and web technology. They've searched somewhere. Why not expect it here as well?

Cheers.

"Give a man a fish and he has food for a day; teach a man to fish and you have fed him for a lifetime."

Although perhaps OP is suggesting they way some of us are teaching the newbies to fish for information here on FT could be somewhat refined.

Different people will read different qualities into a single post. Some might find a post to be rude, others might not.

What I have noticed in the past several months is a marked rise in the following scenario:

1. Newbie starts thread asking a question that is answered in the forum's FAQs, in the Wiki, and in half a dozen threads started in the last 3 months.
2. Veteran answers Newbie's question, and then politely tells him how he found that answer.
3. 8 more newbies jump the veteran with sarcastic posts demanding that he stop even mentioning the existence of a search function, and demanding that he immediately cease any implication that a newbie could find information any other way than by starting a new thread to ask a question.

We have trained them well.