That was mine 84

Hear hear!

And now (gasp!) to go back to the original subject of the thread, yes I agree that there seems to be a rise in personal abuse and ad hominem attacks. Having said that, this seems to be a cyclical thing - FT just seems to go through good and bad patches, and I have no idea what causes it (Phases of the moon? Sunspot activity? Heatwaves? Too many re-runs of old Jerry Springer shows?).

I only read about 15 fora on FT with any regularity, but of the ones I do I would nominate the AC forum as one which has become very snipy and aggressive lately. I know that some would of course advise me therefore not to visit that forum, but since Aeroplan is my chosen FFP then that doesn't make much sense for me.

One thought does give me comfort, however: yes there is(love that bolding!) life after FT!

Beat Army!



[This message has been edited by SPN Lifer (edited Jan 22, 2004).]

Randy, another reason personal attacks hurt FT: word of mouth.

For example, back in 2000, there was a positive review of FT left on epinions.com from someone who (looking in the right margin of the review) says that his FT name is "Don" from Connecticut (which FT member is the "left-wing member from Connecticut" I was referring to in my post earlier in the thread). Don was chased away from FT by personal attacks last summer.

http://www.epinions.com/trvl-review-...39EE500D-prod5

(bolding mine)

Would he say that today? My guess is no.

During a week away from posting (and, for that matter, reading much of anything) here, I've given some thought as to whether FT is worth it in the long run. And, as other people in this thread have mentioned - ultimately, it is - even if there are parts which you don't like. And I suppose that's the attitude I have to look at it with - ignore OMNI and its threads as usual, yet participate as usual on the travel/miles side of it.

I just hope that the regular posters there will keep Randy's quote from another thread in mind:

I still contend that the partisan slams - from either side - are as offensive as any personal attack - but to each their own, I suppose.

That being said, though, I am actually responding to this post:

Don's departure coincides with the original closing of OMNI, and in my opinion, I figured that had more to do with his departure (that is, he was denied posting privileges) than because of personal attacks.

If it was, indeed, personal attacks that drove him away, then in my opinion, Don reaped what he sowed. I'd venture that two-thirds of what he posted here was little more than ad hominem against Bush, and Republicans in general. There were many times that people in OMNI (myself included) asked him to clarify or defend positions, give explanations, or give justifications for his positions. His only response? More hateful spouting. Every time I, or someone else, asked him a question, he deliberately ignored it and posted more hate.

This is the classic definition of a "troll." And he got called on it by several people on FT.

Keeping that in mind, I think making the implication that Don was some sort of innocent victim is a bit misleading of this individual's posting behavior.

Ultimately, though, I guess people are going to post like that - either here, or on a political IBB, or anywhere. The debater in me cringes every time I see it from either side, because it fosters intolerance and divisiveness, rather than intelligent discussion and problem-solving.

And that is the side of me that, ultimately, despises what OMNI is. But, again, to each their own, I suppose.

Mike

Actually, IIRC, his departure pre-dates OMNI's closure by a few months.

I don't really think Don was the worst, but whatever. What's done is done. Point is, that there are "satisfied users" who become dissatisfied due to personal attacks (to a greater or lesser degree) and then either fail to give good word of mouth or even give FT bad reviews due to those attacks, neither of which can be good for traffic here. Even if traffic is growing, how much more could it grow if people were recommending the site more often?

Oh, and welcome back!

The archives note that Don's last OMNI post was on August 19, 2003. OMNI was closed by Randy that very day:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../000783-2.html

The only reason why I remember the time frame is that I stopped posting in OMNI right around the same time - my last OMNI post was on August 14th (though two non-OMNI threads I posted on were moved there and now appear in the archives).

As you note, though, what's done is done. My point was, though, that people often get what they give - and this is no exception.

Thanks.

Mike

[This message has been edited by nako (edited Jan 22, 2004).]

"Known"? Gosh, I hope not. I would hate to think I had befriended any trolls. But is it obvious that the person has been hanging out around FT far too long to be a newbie? Yes... blatantly.

Which is why we have moderators and a continuing spirit to help members get value from FlyerTalk. Hoping that you aren't playing Chicken Little (... the sky is falling, the sky is falling), would you stop for a second and consider this: In December (usually the slowest month of posting on FT because of the multiple holidays, etc.) there were just over 640,000 unique visitors to FlyerTalk and they accounted for greater than 80,000 new posts. My observations is that this thread refers to a very small handful of events. Would you say its a huge problem when we compare the exceptions and personal attacks to the sheer number of visitors? Just on posts alone, our apparent "crime record" is likely just 2/1,000ths of one percent. When compared to visitation, it becomes statisically insignificant. But statisically insignificant or not, we continue to work on trying to make every member's visit realistc and rewarding. What would Don say? It appears that the chances are the average user of FlyerTalk is quite happy. And I'd hope that Don or any other member simply remembers what they came of FT for. It is a very unusual and very rare day when any member has a problem when they 'talk travel.' And of the 640,000 unique visitors to FT in December, what number do you think were subject to personal attacks?

In closing, I can only say: How can I help you today on FlyerTalk?

You already have. You provide Flyertalk.

On a six sigma basis, FT is approaching a six sigma level of fun... save all that surprise "downtime". If you can minimize that or forewarn us more often, it would be all the better.

Excellent point. I have seen very few flame wars that broke out simply over miles, points and travel. ( Discounting, of course, the DL and AC Forums... ) Most flames break out over the age old controversy on sex, politics and religion.
Much as I�m tempted to weigh in on some of those subjects, I usually bite the bullet and limit my opinions to travel related issues and more than a few nonsense but fun threads.

Once again my granny and the US Navy appear to have great wisdom.

That might well be a wise thing to preclude from OMNI.

Even the moderators do not seem to disagree on that.



------------------
~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from a UA 747-400 exit row 15 near you SOON!

Please don't attempt to speak for me.

While I do not choose to participate in these type of discussions, I don't want to see them banned.

I just want everyone to abide by the TOS.

------------------
Sean
aka: skofarrell
Moderator, OMNI & American Express

When I started this thread, I had never visited the OMNI forum. Now I have. I will not be a frequent visitor since the reason I visit FT is not for discussion on a variety of general topics. I had noticed a number of personal attacks in various other forums recently. The same FTs are making most of the attacks. I am asking the moderators to be more diligent in policing such attacks. I do not want to know about the internal communication between Randy and the moderators to ensure that effective moderation is occuring. I think it is important for FTs to be reminded that Randy does not condone this behavior and it will not be tolerated.

Quote by skofarrell:
I just want everyone to abide by the TOS
__________________________________________________ ________________
You should have added the words "as determined by the moderator"