Sure thing - seeing you insist on asking the obvious question:

1. Did you ever time-out doc without giving him advance email notice that you planned to?

2. Did doc ever disagree with any of your decisions on OMNI?

3. Did you at any time advise doc he had been timed out from OMNI?

4. Has doc posted ANYWHERE generally on Flyertalk since you timed him out in September?

(Perhaps taking the Fifth was a VERY good idea in hindsight?)

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~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from a UA 747-400 exit row 15 near you SOON!


[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited Jan 25, 2004).]

No one has been permanently banned from OMNI, for disagreeing with the board owner, moderators, or combination of the two. Now, being completely banned from FT for other offenses is a different story, one which I have no direct knowledge or interest.

I can speak to your to latest unsubstatiated allegation:

1. No. He received several warnings over a 6-10 week period. The last being an explicit instruction to stop his bumping/updating activities because it was causing great consternation with quite a few other members. The moderators and other members were working with Randy to create a "Doc's Newstand" section for him to own. He offered to take a "vacation" again, to which I responded: "I don’t feel it necessary for you to stop posting on OMNI (new or old topics). I am asking you to refrain from updating older topics for a while"

2. Yes, he disagreed with his timeout (which, again, was only from OMNI, not all of FT). His timeout was earned for responding to an attack. He had been explicitly instructed not respond to any attack directed his way a week or so earlier.

3. Yes, he was informed. He (and the other poster with whom he was fighting) received a week timeout. As I told him at the time "Now I am stuck with the unenviable position of having to hand out equal “double minors”, even though he (the other party) picked the fight."

4. The other member served his punishment and returned, Doc elected not to come back.

So, no one has been permanently "banned" from OMNI for disagreeing with a moderator. Doc to this day can choose to post in OMNI if he wants to. He cannot put himself ahead of the TOS or the community though.

FWIW, I have all the email to back up the chain of events. jfe and I were in agreement on the facts and the punishment. Randy, as always was informed and did not overturn our decision.

In the future, I'd suggest that you might want to get both sides of the story, before you make another accusation.

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Sean
aka: skofarrell
Moderator, OMNI & American Express

[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited Jan 25, 2004).]

I too had my run ins with Doc but he was informative...again I think the "my turf" thing with you is overdone.And, of course Randy will go along with you. You are a volunteer after all.

You're welcome to your opinion. I do not expect to make the right call 100% of the time as I am human. Moderators inform Randy of every action to ensure just that.

Upon reflection, I don't see OMNI as "my turf". It was a poor choice of words (I was in a hurry). But, I will say that I'll do my best to ensure that in any forum I moderate, everyone is going to abide by the TOS. We've had OMNI closed once because people put themsevles above the TOS, and I'm sure my fellow moderators will agree that we'll do all we can to ensure it won't happen again.

I also want to also point out that it wasn't just "me" on any of these actions. The OMNI moderators have always acted in consensus or we do not at all.


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Sean
aka: skofarrell
Moderator, OMNI & American Express

I have not made AFAIK even ONE "unsubstantiated allegation" in this thread, much less more than one. You are a Moderator and posting this stuff?

You challenged me (more than once) to offer details and I did. Your bad move IMO. I never at any time mentioned a "permanent" ban on anyone. And you know it. Yet you went back and edited that in.

I know for certain as of recent days that doc disputes #1 and has done for many months. And he does not mind me passing that on. He posted as much himself that you did NOT email him whatever on this:

www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/Forum44/HTML/013929.html

Perhaps you told others on the Moderator Forum about it often and just forgot to tell doc? Just a thought.

Perhaps you asked him to "stop doing something" that in no way breached the TOS, or anything close to breaching the TOS on any Forum, much less OMNI? Just a thought?

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~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from a UA 747-400 exit row 15 near you SOON!

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Simply amazing.

Sorry, I read "permanent ban" where you did say "time out". My apologies.

Regardless, Doc and another member were suspended for violating the TOS, not "questioning a moderator's decision."

As far as the other accusation, since you're in close touch with Doc, ask him if it is OK for me to post our email chain. I'm sure it will shut this conversation down quick, because I still have it, and I still stand by it.

I'm not concerned with my moves (good or bad as they may be) as you are, because once again, I'm sticking with the facts as I saw them, not memory.

Now, since we are on this walk down memory lane, can you please take a moment and re-read the email you sent me on 18-Jun-2002? I found it quite fascinating...

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Sean
aka: skofarrell
Moderator, OMNI & American Express

[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited Jan 25, 2004).]

1. The words "time out" seem rather clear to me. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif One apology at last though - so I'll take that gladly. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

2. Not sure what TOS violation adding harmlessly to a thread comprises, with no flame or insults - perhaps you might elaborate - is doing that is still permitted? i.e. the recent ones bumped up in OMNI 'to save being archived' seemed not to have breached that same TOS? No time-outs issued etc?

3. FewMiles I recall reading once told you to "take a hike" over the matter when he was approached. Is that correct? Isn't that: "questioning a moderator's decision." that you just stated had NOT occurred in this matter ??????

Now a very few Moderators moan and groan and grumble (behind my back) about my postings, but I have never told a Mod by email to "take a hike" - or anything remotely close. I have always complied when asked civilly, which also seems to be overlooked by certain parties. C'est la vie.

4. You will of course need to obtain doc's (or anyone else's) written OK to post on FT anything he emailed. My clear understanding is that doc keenly wished to do just that in the past and YOU steadfastly refused. Sounds like one to take to email for sure between you that one. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Perhaps you or he might update us all on your decision, as you say you are now willing. I sincerely doubt posting it will "shut this conversation down" one iota however. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif


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~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from a UA 747-400 exit row 15 near you SOON!


[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited Jan 25, 2004).]

I'll stand by what I've said. doc and Fewmiles received timeouts for violating the TOS. Fewmiles came back, doc decided not to.They were both warned. The action was taken with the consensus of both (at the time) Moderators.

As to the rest, if Doc wants to rehash it in ORP, he's always been welcome to. We went back and forth in email, and he steadfastly refuses to believe he's done anything wrong. Regardless, he was baited and he retaliated. Both sides received a punishment, and life has moved on.

Since you agreed to "help" with this very issue that summer (again, see your email from 18-Jun-2003), I'm surprised that you're raising this as an "incident" here.

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Sean
aka: skofarrell
Moderator, OMNI & American Express

[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited Jan 25, 2004).]

I could care less about the sexual persuasion of anyone on FT...or in the real world. I do care about flaming and baiting and running good people out.

I think that Randy was 100% correct in closing Omni and then giving everyone one more chance by reopening it.

It seems that that one more chance didn't work. Omni is still the cesspool of FT.

As for Dovster, he is a friend and a valuable resource for FT. Both for his humor and his brains.

[This message has been edited by mikey1003 (edited Jan 25, 2004).]

Mikey, while I thank you very much for you kind words, I don't know if I agree with you that OMNI needs to be closed.

I am disatisfied with the moderating there and have chosen not to post on OMNI. I haven't been banned from it, this was my own decision.

I also chose not to post on numerous other forums -- although my reasons there are simply a lack of interest.

If someone is happy with the OMNI moderation (and that, I believe, is the majority of OMNI posters) and enjoys going there, I see no reason to deprive him of it.

You, for your reasons, and me, for mine, may not post on OMNI but the fact of its existence takes nothing away from either of us.

I just hate it when it becomes personal.

I think you protest too much http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

skofarrell - thank you for ignoring entirely my questions #2 and #3 above. Others I guess will draw their own conclusion to the non answers, as I most certainly have.

As to # 4 as you know doc is not posting on FT, as he was timed-out on OMNI. I can only repeat that he has advised me several times before YOU were the one un-prepared to have the emails between published here.

I do hope you accede to point #4 above and update us after you have exchanged emails with doc on this, as that of course is the only way they might be published.



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~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from a UA 747-400 exit row 15 near you SOON!

It strikes me that the conclusion that most have already drawn is fourfold:

1. There small and overly vocal minority on Flyertalk who will disagree with anything a moderator says or does, simply for the sake of raising a ruckus.

2. That the this discussion is about 2-3 three pages of thread beyond absurd.

3. That this forum is "Only Randy Peterson" and not "Only skofarrell" or (my personal favorite) "Only Whichver Moderator X feels like stalking today". So that I don't violate the TOS, I will leave the identity of "X" up to the gentle reader.

4. That if Randy really felt that there was a problem with OMNI moderation, especially with 2 or 3 threads running multiple pages "documenting" (I use that discription loosely) such "abuse," action would have been taken already. Or, the parties insisting upon pressing the issue would have e-mailed Randy directly.

This horse can continued to be beaten until the Glue Man shows up, but the safe bet is twofold: Randy is fully aware of the outstanding work that the OMNI mods are doing (especially in light of the vocal few with no standing who choose to continue to beat the aforementioned horse) and that he presumably supports the mods.

I don't presume to speak for Randy (or anyone else, for that matter), but the evidence is overwhelming.

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Don't feed the trolls.

[This message has been edited by ClueByFour (edited Jan 25, 2004).]