What exactly do you consider a troll?

If a troll violates the FT TOS then the moderators should request a timeout and/or ban based on email and/or IP. If the "troll" is just someone you all find annoying then sadly you will have to learn to live with it. An internet board has people from all over the world, all shapes, sizes etc... and there will always be members that are considered "annoying", that isn't a reason to implement a costly verification system.

I think the power of Flyertalk is that new users become "hooked" after asking a quick question, if they have to pass through a verification process first I doubt Flyertalk would be the board it is today.

There are several trolls on the DL board.... (I use this term broadly, and it has nothing to do with posting things I do not agree wiht). Posters who use multiple names! They use dial up service or reboot, so the IP changes every time. IP is not a system that roots out all multiple user name domains and is easy to get around using IP masking systems. We have professional trouble makers in the DL board. IP only works if you involve law enforcement and get a warrent to get user names from the ISP.

It is time for FT to put in place a system to make the board professional as it used to be.

I agree with JRF that there is a problem at the DL board. I do believe however that it is one or possibly two individuals who are phreaking. I think that most of us (including Randy and JRF) know who it is and I wonder if there is not a real world way of getting him to go away again (restraining order possibly??).

JRF is right on the money. We have had repeated instances of trolls causing problems on the DL board. There is no doubt in my mind as to the identity of one of those individuals. We would benefit from an identity verification system for the board.

If I get it correct there is a major troll in the Delta board and the solution would be to apply verification to all of FT? I think it's better to solve this problem at the source, the troll in this case. If very active moderation is performed by locking each account the troll uses he/she will eventually give up. It's also possible to restrict access to the DL board to certain posters who could "apply" for access after proving their identity.

You are not seeing the entire picture. If what you have said could be done, we would be set.

Trolls are and have been a problem on all boards at different times. There is no way currently to stop someone from being banned and signing up the next day with a new user ID, or many user IDs.

FT would be a much better assett to all of us if it were more professional. Here is an example of what some trolls have done to other boards and who they may infact turn out to be: troll example

Editied for a typo

[This message has been edited by JRF (edited 07-28-2003).]

Scott's suggestion seems sound to me although i do not have all the info.

I visit the DL board fairly regularly but am not aware of the problem person, but as Rssrsvp is a DL moderator clearly (at least) one exists by his post above.

There are 4 moderators there and I guess all also have a pretty good idea who it is? It seems many others here also know who this person is .... has Randy or FT staff emailed the person involved?

The problem is that as soon as you ban someone, they just sign up again with a new user name. IP addresses are not what everyone seems to think they are. They serve no real purpose other then help track trolls. If you really want to use the IP to know for sure, you need to involve law enforcement. What is the big deal with having to pay $1 one time? The profits would go to Randy et all to support the board as well.

What is the big deal with having to pay $1 one time?

no problem about $1 (or more) - but I will just not give my credit-card info right away when visiting a (for me) new board - even more so if the delicate info would have to be sent through an unsecured email.

---

The simple fact is that many fols just will NOT pay to register!

Long ago I'd suggested the possibility of undertaking the creation of a special "premium" section, subdivision of the FT boards, which despite being a kind of division in the board itself, might create a solution, at least in part to some of these issues, no?

And NEVER, EVER, send a credit card number anywhere using standard unsecured email!

-Mark

You wont have to pay to look around and read posts, only to post. If what you find is not interesting enough to warrent $1, then perhaps you are one of the posters we will loose as a result of the $1 fee.

We are looking to keep high quality standards and get rid of the riff raff which is becmoming ONCE AGAIN not nice.

As far as the concern about using a credit card over an unsercured internet connection, please assume we are not iddiots. If this were to be done, I am sure that Randy et all would have it as kosher and seemless as possible.

Seems so far everyone who is against this idea is against it for technology problems that are not factual or correct.

The real question is, if you can read for free, would a new person join if they had to pay $1. I think they would, after reading a few threads, they would see what a great place it was (after we rooted out a few bad people) and the $1 would not be a hinderance.

As I said before, don�t let yourself get caught-up in the circular logic of those who do not want verification. It is a waste of time.

They will tell you that it is not technically possible to have a functional, cost effective safe verification system, and you will spend hours going over each objection point by point showing them in great detail that it is technically possible, done at lots of other sites, and not a problem. Then, just as you�ve made your point and expect an �oh, I see you�re right�, they�ll change tactics and begin to argue why it will keep people away and they would never have joined if they had to be verified. You�ll then spend hours debugging that myth and showing why a slightly greater level of exclusivity wouldn�t keep away anyone except those we want kept away and show how it has worked at many other websites. Then again, just when a normal person would say �oh, I see you�re right�, they�ll change tactics and begin to argue about technical impossibilities again as if you hadn�t already proved that one incorrect.

Xenophobes opposed to the idea of verification just are, and no amount of showing them facts will make them see �black� as anything other than �white�.

I agree with you - but give it up. It�s useless trying to convince these people, and Randy wisely refuses to get in the middle.

It is a real shame, FT used to be a respected place on the web. Most people I know that used to visit and or visit and post have left. Randy should cherish what he has created and take the next step to protect it from becoming a gossip trash talk site verses a great resource.

NJDavid, very valid points, but my main objection is that the problem seems to be mainly on the DL board as I don't hear anyone mentioning major problems in the other boards. If DL is suffering a lot from this troll then perhaps it's time that the DL board is changed so it requires some kind of authorization to post to. I honestly don't think that a full blown verification system for FT is needed just because of one board.

What I personally think is that some people are just simply not used to the idea that Flyertalk has grown, the "good old days" are gone and we will soon be reaching 2 million posts. The days when Flyertalk was just 50 people being happy and merry are long gone, with growth comes many things we don't like and sadly large boards attract trolls. I host and maintain over 4 boards that are in size and traffic twice the size of Flyertalk and can assure you that the situation here is pretty amazing, the DL troll seems to be just one person if I am not mistaken, many boards have 100's of these people, rendering the board completely useless.

Have you considered that this thread is exactly what the troll wants? To be honest, I've read all current 3 pages on the DL board and actually fail to see the real problem, I see one poster who attracts a lot of attention and lot's of hassle given to the moderators who's every action is questioned and ridiculed. If you folks at the DL board didn't give this guy so much attention the problem wouldn't be there in the first place, trolls don't do well when they don't get attention.

The technical part of the verification is portrayed to be "easy", well UBB 5.47 doesn't have any system in place for user verification so it would either be a manual issue or would require a major rewrite of the membership code, people want to post NOW, not tomorrow when the payment is processed.

Flyertalk has become so big simply because anyone can post, shutting that down would be the end of the growth. I am pretty sure I never would have registered if I had to pass on my CC information.

So, IMHO let's not blow this out of proportion, it's ONE or maybe two people annoying you and I feel that does not warrant a verification system for everyone on Flyertalk. This troll is so persistent that a simple CC transaction isn't going to stop him. What if FT implements this and the troll simply pulls one of his cards to troll on again? Even then the legality of calling or writing him to stop is pretty vague. Would your system be required for ALL new members or ALL current members too? FT's membership numbers would drop like a brick.

I don't believe this at all, the "good old days" were often much worse than they are now. There hasn't been a lifetime ban or timeout for over a year now.