Miles and Points
Aug 16, 2003 | 11:48 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 468
Miles and Points
Randy,
I understand that moderators are volunteers and sincerely trying to help. I also agree that posting in appropriate forums helps everyone. And most moves by moderators are all for the best. Having said that, I have been chided by you in the past for commenting on moderators. Let me risk being chided again by calling your attention to a recent post in MilesBuzz.
Several days ago, a poster asked in MilesBuzz whether there was an off-line program that would give miles between airports. The poster wasn't asking for distances between cities. He was asking for distances between airport pairs. I routinely use such mileage programs to determine the best routing for FF points. There may be other reasons to use a mileage program, but it is hard to imagine a better reason when the question is asked here.
I did a search in several forums but couldn't find anything.
Is there a windows (or Palm) program that will give me mileage btw. airport pairs? I know I can get it from web-services, but they are slower, and have advertisements, etc.
This post was moved to TravelBuzz. Now I could understand moving to the Mileage Run forum where questions of this kind often appear, but it is hard to imagine a less appropriate forum than TravelBuzz for this post. It has no relation to the type of travel problems normally discussed in TravelBuzz. The poster did receive several replies in TravelBuzz listing commercial or web programs, mostly of the Road and Street type, but only one [from me] listing an off-line program for airport pairs. If I hadn't seen his original post in MilesBuzz and bothered to go to TravelBuzz, he would have received no reply to a perfectly reasonable request. A request that might have received multiple useful replies, some possibly better than the one I suggested, if the post had simply been left in MilesBuzz or moved to Mileage Run.
When another poster asked in MilesBuzz why this thread had been closed, he was directed by the moderator to post in this forum, which is why I am posting here now.
Most of the time, even if I disagree with closing and moving a particular thread, I can understand the rationale behind moving the thread. This time any rationale at all simply escapes me.
FlyerTalk Miles is listed as the forum group for "all your Miles and Points information".
It is hard to imagine any post more clearly related to Miles and Points.
Bruce
I understand that moderators are volunteers and sincerely trying to help. I also agree that posting in appropriate forums helps everyone. And most moves by moderators are all for the best. Having said that, I have been chided by you in the past for commenting on moderators. Let me risk being chided again by calling your attention to a recent post in MilesBuzz.
Several days ago, a poster asked in MilesBuzz whether there was an off-line program that would give miles between airports. The poster wasn't asking for distances between cities. He was asking for distances between airport pairs. I routinely use such mileage programs to determine the best routing for FF points. There may be other reasons to use a mileage program, but it is hard to imagine a better reason when the question is asked here.
I did a search in several forums but couldn't find anything.
Is there a windows (or Palm) program that will give me mileage btw. airport pairs? I know I can get it from web-services, but they are slower, and have advertisements, etc.
This post was moved to TravelBuzz. Now I could understand moving to the Mileage Run forum where questions of this kind often appear, but it is hard to imagine a less appropriate forum than TravelBuzz for this post. It has no relation to the type of travel problems normally discussed in TravelBuzz. The poster did receive several replies in TravelBuzz listing commercial or web programs, mostly of the Road and Street type, but only one [from me] listing an off-line program for airport pairs. If I hadn't seen his original post in MilesBuzz and bothered to go to TravelBuzz, he would have received no reply to a perfectly reasonable request. A request that might have received multiple useful replies, some possibly better than the one I suggested, if the post had simply been left in MilesBuzz or moved to Mileage Run.
When another poster asked in MilesBuzz why this thread had been closed, he was directed by the moderator to post in this forum, which is why I am posting here now.
Most of the time, even if I disagree with closing and moving a particular thread, I can understand the rationale behind moving the thread. This time any rationale at all simply escapes me.
FlyerTalk Miles is listed as the forum group for "all your Miles and Points information".
It is hard to imagine any post more clearly related to Miles and Points.
Bruce
Aug 17, 2003 | 2:30 am
#2
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: lapsed UA 1K (now a lowly 2P), HGP Platinum
Posts: 9,607
Bruce, did you email the moderator, flipside?
I would think that would be the most straightforward place to get an answer to the question.
Many post movements are judgement calls, and not being a MilesBuzz! regular, I wouldn't dream of offering any opinion on this one. But, in general, sometimes you move one because it just hit you wrong one day, and sometimes you leave one open because you missed it or you just weren't sure.
Either way, I'm under the impression that, on the whole, the MilesBuzz! moderators do a fantastic job of keeping that forum on topic for what members have come to expect from that forum.
I hope you'll agree even if one or two individual posts might leave you scratching your head.
I would think that would be the most straightforward place to get an answer to the question.
Many post movements are judgement calls, and not being a MilesBuzz! regular, I wouldn't dream of offering any opinion on this one. But, in general, sometimes you move one because it just hit you wrong one day, and sometimes you leave one open because you missed it or you just weren't sure.
Either way, I'm under the impression that, on the whole, the MilesBuzz! moderators do a fantastic job of keeping that forum on topic for what members have come to expect from that forum.
I hope you'll agree even if one or two individual posts might leave you scratching your head.
Aug 17, 2003 | 12:33 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 468
A couple of comments:
Actually, I wasn't going to do anything until a relative newbie made a second posting asking why the first thread had been closed.
zsero's question brought the following reply:
And back to your post:
It isn't just one or two posts that leave me scratching my head. Read Punki's thread Trigger happy moderators in this same forum.
Maybe it's something in the Northwest air, but I am 100% with Punki.
My initial reaction was simply to post in Punki's thread, but in that case the moderator had answered the question before closing the thread. In this case, there was no attempt to answer the poster's question, and the only response to a second post asking why the first thread had been closed, was the response above suggesting a post to this forum. I know some have questioned why any one other than the originator should comment on a closed thread, but since I doubted that anyone who had only posted 26 or 18 posts was likely to brave this forum, I thought it deserved its own thread.
Bruce
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by robb:
"Bruce, did you email the moderator, flipside? I would think that would be the most straightforward place to get an answer to the question."</font>
"Bruce, did you email the moderator, flipside? I would think that would be the most straightforward place to get an answer to the question."</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">originally posted by zsero:
"Er, why was this closed? How could a question about how to find out the mileage of flights not be related to mileage?"</font>
"Er, why was this closed? How could a question about how to find out the mileage of flights not be related to mileage?"</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">originally posted by gleff:
"If you'd like to comment on moderating, there are a few venues for doing so without opening a new post in this forum about moderating decisions and distracting the MilesBuzz board discussion from miles and points.
You can:
Email the moderators. We all publish our e-mail addresses, and the list of the four of us is on the top of the thread listing.
Post your thoughts in Randy's forum. He chartered the moderators and we continue to be answerable to him. If we are being unreasonable, he can intercede on your behalf. It's his board and he wants to see it run as well as possible, with as much value to members as possible -- so if you have a valid complaint, he will no doubt be receptive.
You can also email Randy directly. He publishes his email address in his profile.
But let's not detract from real conversations about miles and points with threads about moderators.
I hope you'll understand when I close this thread."</font>
"If you'd like to comment on moderating, there are a few venues for doing so without opening a new post in this forum about moderating decisions and distracting the MilesBuzz board discussion from miles and points.
You can:
Email the moderators. We all publish our e-mail addresses, and the list of the four of us is on the top of the thread listing.
Post your thoughts in Randy's forum. He chartered the moderators and we continue to be answerable to him. If we are being unreasonable, he can intercede on your behalf. It's his board and he wants to see it run as well as possible, with as much value to members as possible -- so if you have a valid complaint, he will no doubt be receptive.
You can also email Randy directly. He publishes his email address in his profile.
But let's not detract from real conversations about miles and points with threads about moderators.
I hope you'll understand when I close this thread."</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
"I hope you'll agree even if one or two individual posts might leave you scratching your head."</font>
"I hope you'll agree even if one or two individual posts might leave you scratching your head."</font>
Maybe it's something in the Northwest air, but I am 100% with Punki.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">originally posted by punki:
"IMHO only posts containing personal attacks and/or vulgarity, or those posts obviously intended to incite and/or annoy, should ever be deleted. The only situation where I think it would be appropriate to close down an entire thread is when there is a heated battle going on between or among a small number of posters who are posting (attacks upon one another) faster than the mopderator can delete them--in that case just lock it down.
If a thread is simply boring or overdone, it will die of lack of interest and should be given the opportunity to do so--that may be an even better lesson to the poster than closing the thread.
I just happen to dislike that moderation style. You are free to use that style and, as long as I am polite and considerate of others' feelings when so doing, I am free to express my disapproval of the style.
I personally believe that, so long as it fits within generally accepted rules of common decency, post content should be driven by the desires of the community, not the whim of a moderator."</font>
"IMHO only posts containing personal attacks and/or vulgarity, or those posts obviously intended to incite and/or annoy, should ever be deleted. The only situation where I think it would be appropriate to close down an entire thread is when there is a heated battle going on between or among a small number of posters who are posting (attacks upon one another) faster than the mopderator can delete them--in that case just lock it down.
If a thread is simply boring or overdone, it will die of lack of interest and should be given the opportunity to do so--that may be an even better lesson to the poster than closing the thread.
I just happen to dislike that moderation style. You are free to use that style and, as long as I am polite and considerate of others' feelings when so doing, I am free to express my disapproval of the style.
I personally believe that, so long as it fits within generally accepted rules of common decency, post content should be driven by the desires of the community, not the whim of a moderator."</font>
Bruce
Aug 17, 2003 | 2:37 pm
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DCA
Programs: AMC MovieWatcher, Giant BonusCard, Petco PALS Card, Silver Diner Blue Plate Club
Posts: 22,314
I appreciate the the meta discussion of moderation is taken up here rather than in MilesBuzz.
Now, if you'd like to understand the action of the moderator in question, you might drop that moderator (flipside) an email? Giving a heads up that the thread is here might be helpful.
I closed the thread about moderating because it wasn't the latest frequent flyer program buzz.
In the thread Punki started, I gave an explanation of why I acted as I did.
But in the original thread in question, I wasn't the one who moved it so I didn't feel it was appropriate for me to speak for flipside. So I just closed that thread on its own merits.
As for the original thread that was closed...
Well, as another poster observed, these things ARE subjective and we do the best we can. Different people can differ.
Gary
Now, if you'd like to understand the action of the moderator in question, you might drop that moderator (flipside) an email? Giving a heads up that the thread is here might be helpful.
I closed the thread about moderating because it wasn't the latest frequent flyer program buzz.
In the thread Punki started, I gave an explanation of why I acted as I did.
But in the original thread in question, I wasn't the one who moved it so I didn't feel it was appropriate for me to speak for flipside. So I just closed that thread on its own merits.
As for the original thread that was closed...
Well, as another poster observed, these things ARE subjective and we do the best we can. Different people can differ.
Gary
Aug 18, 2003 | 11:27 am
#5
Founder of FlyerTalk
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 6,540
No worry to ask this question. It's a good one and one that i actually almost became involved in. I saw this question when it was posted and almost moved it myself to TravelBuzz. I think the question here is why? When i read the question, my first and second thoughts were that this question has nothing to do with frequent flyer programs. The poster did not identify the purpose and use of this information so it would be left up to a moderator to determine what the purpose of the question was. Again, when i saw it, i almost moved it myself but got distracted with a phone call.
Now, if the member had posted some informatrion as part of the post that told us all the relevance to a frequent flyer program (ie. elite re-qualification, mileage run merit, etc.) then I'm sure the post would have stayed its place. But absense that information, the member allowed a moderator (and myself) to make a quick decision and move it to TravelBuzz!
What we have found is that many new members of FyerTalk are not the mileage maniacs that started this board, and we welcome them and their travel input and take-away. These members look at mileage between airports for many other reasons - estimated time in the air, homework answers for their children (yes, there have been plenty of those), and just general geographic locations, etc. These i woud think are generally best in travel since they are generic to that nature.
Was anyone wrong here? I think not. Absent a very clear purpose of information, it will always be left up to someone else's interpretation.
Like flipside in this case, i really did not see a clear reuest for information related to a frequent flyer program here.
brucemcal: thanks for the inquiry and you have helped those who will read this thread: please be more clear to the purpose of your questions. It will help all of us answer and channel the information to the appropriate forums.
Now, if the member had posted some informatrion as part of the post that told us all the relevance to a frequent flyer program (ie. elite re-qualification, mileage run merit, etc.) then I'm sure the post would have stayed its place. But absense that information, the member allowed a moderator (and myself) to make a quick decision and move it to TravelBuzz!
What we have found is that many new members of FyerTalk are not the mileage maniacs that started this board, and we welcome them and their travel input and take-away. These members look at mileage between airports for many other reasons - estimated time in the air, homework answers for their children (yes, there have been plenty of those), and just general geographic locations, etc. These i woud think are generally best in travel since they are generic to that nature.
Was anyone wrong here? I think not. Absent a very clear purpose of information, it will always be left up to someone else's interpretation.
Like flipside in this case, i really did not see a clear reuest for information related to a frequent flyer program here.
brucemcal: thanks for the inquiry and you have helped those who will read this thread: please be more clear to the purpose of your questions. It will help all of us answer and channel the information to the appropriate forums.
Aug 22, 2003 | 2:46 pm
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 468
Hi Randy and all,
Well, I suppose it depends on your perspective. I use MileEdge all the time checking segment length to maximise FF miles Like, if you can only have six segments is SEA/PDX/SFO/SMF/DEN/BWI better than SEA/SFO/DEN/ORD/EWR/BWI?
Then, real money: segment fares on *Alliance airpass vary from $60 (up to 150 m) up to over $200. I was visiting friends last year in OSL, ARN, TLL, CPH and PRG. By picking optimum distances I saved several hundred dollars, and over a thousand under the lowest price quoted by United.
FlyerTalk is incredible. By using the help here I will be flying SEA/ARN next week in C for under a thousand using my "sweet spots". I just can't imagine why everybody isn't doing the same thing.
Thanks again,
Bruce
Well, I suppose it depends on your perspective. I use MileEdge all the time checking segment length to maximise FF miles Like, if you can only have six segments is SEA/PDX/SFO/SMF/DEN/BWI better than SEA/SFO/DEN/ORD/EWR/BWI?
Then, real money: segment fares on *Alliance airpass vary from $60 (up to 150 m) up to over $200. I was visiting friends last year in OSL, ARN, TLL, CPH and PRG. By picking optimum distances I saved several hundred dollars, and over a thousand under the lowest price quoted by United.
FlyerTalk is incredible. By using the help here I will be flying SEA/ARN next week in C for under a thousand using my "sweet spots". I just can't imagine why everybody isn't doing the same thing.
Thanks again,
Bruce