Call for TOS suspensions
Feb 24, 2002 | 11:09 pm
#1
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Call for TOS suspensions
I am unsure what caused it, possibly the downtime of the FT server, but this has become crazy!
Firstly, while some may not like Doc's many posts and smilies they are not required reading and can easily be skipped.
NJDavid has continued his thrashing of Doc and has violated the FT TOS with this text:
However, between doing that, he is a sniveling little man with a mean streak that far exceeds his size, and has caused unnecessary pain to one too many on this forum.
The thread the text lies within is IMO in very poor taste and not in the spirit of FT.
It is located here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/004327.html
I mean this with no bias. I don't appreciate the incredible lack of respect for another FT'er.
Dorian
Firstly, while some may not like Doc's many posts and smilies they are not required reading and can easily be skipped.
NJDavid has continued his thrashing of Doc and has violated the FT TOS with this text:
However, between doing that, he is a sniveling little man with a mean streak that far exceeds his size, and has caused unnecessary pain to one too many on this forum.
The thread the text lies within is IMO in very poor taste and not in the spirit of FT.
It is located here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/004327.html
I mean this with no bias. I don't appreciate the incredible lack of respect for another FT'er.
Dorian
Feb 24, 2002 | 11:25 pm
#2
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While I have never met essxjay I have always enjoyed her posts and was glad when she became a moderator.
However, her snapfest on Doc today was quite extreme IMO and a clear violation of FT TOS:
doc = the ultimate troll.
Knock it off, doc! FT'ers have access to newspapers, offline as well as online. We don't need you to republish info from other sources.
You are an unbelievable jerk!
The post is in this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/004374.html
No, I am not the some FT TOS enforcer, I just don't like seeing good people get slandered on FT.
Maybe essxjay doesn't want to be a moderator any more? Dunno?
Dorian
However, her snapfest on Doc today was quite extreme IMO and a clear violation of FT TOS:
doc = the ultimate troll.
Knock it off, doc! FT'ers have access to newspapers, offline as well as online. We don't need you to republish info from other sources.
You are an unbelievable jerk!
The post is in this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/004374.html
No, I am not the some FT TOS enforcer, I just don't like seeing good people get slandered on FT.
Maybe essxjay doesn't want to be a moderator any more? Dunno?
Dorian
Feb 25, 2002 | 2:18 am
#3
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Dorian:
Firstly, while some may not like Doc's many posts and smilies they are not required reading and can easily be skipped. </font>
Firstly, while some may not like Doc's many posts and smilies they are not required reading and can easily be skipped. </font>
Broken record time: Can't we puh-leaz have a filter capability? Then those who want to enjoy the doc-fest can continue to do so, while the others won't have to.
Feb 25, 2002 | 2:49 am
#4
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IMHO calling for time-outs, resignations etc... is just something that adds fuel to the fires, Let us please allow those who can make the choice come to their own conclusion, if someone feels the need to "call" for action may I suggest doing so in a private email to Randy?
These posts are just a new breeding ground for even more flames
Scott
These posts are just a new breeding ground for even more flames
Scott
Feb 25, 2002 | 4:10 am
#5
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"> posted many months ago
Until we have moderators in place, are we supposed to just let those who would hurt others get away with it? The Talkboard itself has members that have committed these offenses. No wonder nothing gets done save for a quixotic call to "just get along". I translate that to "just behave the way we want unless we find it funny or you're one of us then we'll look the other way".
Blind, swift, strong moderation is the answer as Premex suggests. But we don't have that - not even close. Ignoring the offenders will not solve the problem. Getting angry or upset at those who choose not to stand by and take the abuse or the insults is not the answer. Saying that because moderators are not in place yet we will just ignore the obvious infractions of the rules is not the answer.
As I said before, support the rules and the enforcement of them, or stop complaining about the anarchy that comes from having rules that are not supported - or still worse, not supported blindly with an even hand.
</font>
Until we have moderators in place, are we supposed to just let those who would hurt others get away with it? The Talkboard itself has members that have committed these offenses. No wonder nothing gets done save for a quixotic call to "just get along". I translate that to "just behave the way we want unless we find it funny or you're one of us then we'll look the other way".
Blind, swift, strong moderation is the answer as Premex suggests. But we don't have that - not even close. Ignoring the offenders will not solve the problem. Getting angry or upset at those who choose not to stand by and take the abuse or the insults is not the answer. Saying that because moderators are not in place yet we will just ignore the obvious infractions of the rules is not the answer.
As I said before, support the rules and the enforcement of them, or stop complaining about the anarchy that comes from having rules that are not supported - or still worse, not supported blindly with an even hand.
</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
And as for the bullspit about "retaining a dignified stance" and "no grudge" and "trying to remain civil" here is but one of hundreds of links where Doc was urged to simply delete his atacking posts after I and others deleted ours first (taking the high road), and this was the troll's response:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum20/HTML/004249.html
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So now you also determine who posts what and where they post as well? Was this an appointment by Randy & Co and was it publicized anywhere on FT, or the WSJ, NY Times, whatever..., or do you simply "rule" by fiat?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is how he responds to actions of truce. Do not be fooled by his lies saying he supports one.
Do you love his newsworthy posts. Terriffic, enjoy them. I hope he has many long years of wonderful life to make those of you who enjoy them happy. However, between doing that, he behaves like a sniveling little man with a mean streak that far exceeds his size, and has caused unnecessary pain to one too many on this forum. </font>
And as for the bullspit about "retaining a dignified stance" and "no grudge" and "trying to remain civil" here is but one of hundreds of links where Doc was urged to simply delete his atacking posts after I and others deleted ours first (taking the high road), and this was the troll's response:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum20/HTML/004249.html
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So now you also determine who posts what and where they post as well? Was this an appointment by Randy & Co and was it publicized anywhere on FT, or the WSJ, NY Times, whatever..., or do you simply "rule" by fiat?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is how he responds to actions of truce. Do not be fooled by his lies saying he supports one.
Do you love his newsworthy posts. Terriffic, enjoy them. I hope he has many long years of wonderful life to make those of you who enjoy them happy. However, between doing that, he behaves like a sniveling little man with a mean streak that far exceeds his size, and has caused unnecessary pain to one too many on this forum. </font>
No one wins a flame war. But until we have official action against the trolls and flamers, posting a single response thread here to keep the negative reply posts to one place in omni, away from the serious discussions that this troll pervades seemed to be the prudent step to defending myself. I repeat, all of the comments defending myself from attacks are in one single thread in the Omni forum. I will not muck-up the rest of this board with anything more thn a link to this Omni thread. I will not take the Troll-bait to get in to replying to personal insults during meaningful discussions. I will only post a link referring to a place where we can "step outside" and continue the off-topic discussion. Even that is not respected by some members, as identical flaming posts were placed in nearly 20 threads yesterday.
I stand by these actions, and stand fully ready to be judged - as long as that judging is done equally amongst all the members of this community, and all those who have violated the TOS are suspended. This includes anyone from the troll in question, to members of the Talkboard who have had such behaviors documented. Equal justice for all, or just more of the same.
********************************************
Thanks to those of you who've sent me e-mails of support. I appreciate the vote of confidence.
[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 02-25-2002).]
Feb 25, 2002 | 5:24 am
#6
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I've kept hoping and hoping that all of this would die down and go away. I will not publicly "take sides", and at this point there is no correct side - all parties are now contributing to an atmosphere that is seriously impacting the fun of being here. The TOS violations throughout this are obvious and abundant - and call for some kind of action. But short of that, I would hope all parties recognize there is no value here in having the last word and will voluntarily cease posting for a while.
Feb 25, 2002 | 5:53 am
#7
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NJDavid:
Nothing would make me happier than to never post such words again. However in response to posts where I have been called names, harassed, where the same hurtful comments have been posted in more than 10 threads simultaneously, and - in an atsmophere where such behavior is not subject to being held to the stated TOS of this forum, one such as myself has no choice but to take defense ito one's own's hands.
No one wins a flame war. But until we have official action against the trolls and flamers, posting a single response thread here to keep the negative reply posts to one place in omni, away from the serious discussions that this troll pervades seemed to be the prudent step to defending myself. I repeat, all of the comments defending myself from attacks are in one single thread in the Omni forum. I will not muck-up the rest of this board with anything more thn a link to this Omni thread. I will not take the Troll-bait to get in to replying to personal insults during meaningful discussions. I will only post a link referring to a place where we can "step outside" and continue the off-topic discussion. Even that is not respected by some members, as identical flaming posts were placed in nearly 20 threads yesterday.
I stand by these actions, and stand fully ready to be judged - as long as that judging is done equally amongst all the members of this community, and all those who have violated the TOS are suspended. This includes anyone from the troll in question, to members of the Talkboard who have had such behaviors documented. Equal justice for all, or just more of the same.
[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 02-25-2002).]</font>
Nothing would make me happier than to never post such words again. However in response to posts where I have been called names, harassed, where the same hurtful comments have been posted in more than 10 threads simultaneously, and - in an atsmophere where such behavior is not subject to being held to the stated TOS of this forum, one such as myself has no choice but to take defense ito one's own's hands.
No one wins a flame war. But until we have official action against the trolls and flamers, posting a single response thread here to keep the negative reply posts to one place in omni, away from the serious discussions that this troll pervades seemed to be the prudent step to defending myself. I repeat, all of the comments defending myself from attacks are in one single thread in the Omni forum. I will not muck-up the rest of this board with anything more thn a link to this Omni thread. I will not take the Troll-bait to get in to replying to personal insults during meaningful discussions. I will only post a link referring to a place where we can "step outside" and continue the off-topic discussion. Even that is not respected by some members, as identical flaming posts were placed in nearly 20 threads yesterday.
I stand by these actions, and stand fully ready to be judged - as long as that judging is done equally amongst all the members of this community, and all those who have violated the TOS are suspended. This includes anyone from the troll in question, to members of the Talkboard who have had such behaviors documented. Equal justice for all, or just more of the same.
[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 02-25-2002).]</font>
---
No comment, except to perhaps ever so "politely" remark that the air must indeed be quite thin way up there on the "high road!"
Have a great day All!
Feb 25, 2002 | 6:46 am
#8
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Counsellor:
Broken record time: Can't we puh-leaz have a filter capability? Then those who want to enjoy the doc-fest can continue to do so, while the others won't have to.</font>
Broken record time: Can't we puh-leaz have a filter capability? Then those who want to enjoy the doc-fest can continue to do so, while the others won't have to.</font>
That's what will make FT more enjoyable for me!
[This message has been edited by bollar (edited 02-25-2002).]
Feb 25, 2002 | 7:36 am
#9
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by svpii:
...all parties are now contributing to an atmosphere that is seriously impacting the fun of being here.</font>
...all parties are now contributing to an atmosphere that is seriously impacting the fun of being here.</font>
Feb 25, 2002 | 9:54 am
#10
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Must be spring in the air.
Last month it was snowing in Petaluma but this weekend (1) my wife cut some flowers from the garden (2) I did my first bbq of the year (3) and the first ft flame war of the season began.
Yep 3 sure signs that winter is over.
violations of the tos are happening all over the forums by not only these individuals but many others. At what point does one say you have crossed the indistinct line of a tos violation. And it is really an indistict line.
For some a violation is only when one has made belittling remarks of another.
Yet I can find that it is as grievous that a poster goes off topic on a thread. This may be one of the most time-consuming of all events that takes place on ft as one does not know whether to read a thread as you just may find a gem of wisdom tucked in among the muck or just as likely one begins reading a useful thread and is waylaid by the babel. After all how many times does one have to post their opinion, once, twice, fifty times?
Lastly the breach of tos that I find most non-compliant is those who commit the act of posting words that the vulgarity filter has removed in such a manner that the filter is unable to recognize the word yet is clear to everyone else. Perhaps I find this most aggravating because it is almost always done by the whiners & complainers whom I find rarely if ever add any useful information to ft.
Yes a personal filter to eliminate certain posters would work well for some but I would be afraid that I might miss the gem among the babel. I have always believed that one can learn a lot from one who does it right and even more from those who do it wrong.
Now I am going to post my opinion this one time and one time only. Zee Eee are Oh ZERO tolerance for offenders of the tos.
No ifs, ands or buts).
[This message has been edited by magic111 (edited 02-25-2002).]
Last month it was snowing in Petaluma but this weekend (1) my wife cut some flowers from the garden (2) I did my first bbq of the year (3) and the first ft flame war of the season began.
Yep 3 sure signs that winter is over.
violations of the tos are happening all over the forums by not only these individuals but many others. At what point does one say you have crossed the indistinct line of a tos violation. And it is really an indistict line.
For some a violation is only when one has made belittling remarks of another.
Yet I can find that it is as grievous that a poster goes off topic on a thread. This may be one of the most time-consuming of all events that takes place on ft as one does not know whether to read a thread as you just may find a gem of wisdom tucked in among the muck or just as likely one begins reading a useful thread and is waylaid by the babel. After all how many times does one have to post their opinion, once, twice, fifty times?
Lastly the breach of tos that I find most non-compliant is those who commit the act of posting words that the vulgarity filter has removed in such a manner that the filter is unable to recognize the word yet is clear to everyone else. Perhaps I find this most aggravating because it is almost always done by the whiners & complainers whom I find rarely if ever add any useful information to ft.
Yes a personal filter to eliminate certain posters would work well for some but I would be afraid that I might miss the gem among the babel. I have always believed that one can learn a lot from one who does it right and even more from those who do it wrong.
Now I am going to post my opinion this one time and one time only. Zee Eee are Oh ZERO tolerance for offenders of the tos.
No ifs, ands or buts).
[This message has been edited by magic111 (edited 02-25-2002).]
Feb 25, 2002 | 10:25 am
#11
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The intent of this thread was to bring specific attention to the language used in slamming Doc. IMO, that is the serious TOS violation. If something is not done regarding the language used this place is going to become a madhouse.
We have been instructed in the past to post here and email Randy, both of which have been done.
Dorian
We have been instructed in the past to post here and email Randy, both of which have been done.
Dorian
Feb 25, 2002 | 10:40 am
#12
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Nice of you to bring up TOS violations, Dorian, I found something interesting too:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000030.html
[This message has been edited by Goldlust (edited 02-25-2002).]
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Dorian:
Originally posted by blackjack-21:
Point of view?
How 'bout when G makes some ridiculous, self-serving comments, bordering on the outrageous...
bj-21.
Blackjack...d*mn well said!!
Dorian
</font>
Originally posted by blackjack-21:
Point of view?
How 'bout when G makes some ridiculous, self-serving comments, bordering on the outrageous...
bj-21.
Blackjack...d*mn well said!!
Dorian
</font>
[This message has been edited by Goldlust (edited 02-25-2002).]
Feb 25, 2002 | 10:49 am
#13
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Dorian:
The intent of this thread was to bring specific attention to the language used in slamming Doc. IMO, that is the serious TOS violation. If something is not done regarding the language used this place is going to become a madhouse.
</font>
The intent of this thread was to bring specific attention to the language used in slamming Doc. IMO, that is the serious TOS violation. If something is not done regarding the language used this place is going to become a madhouse.
</font>
My, Dorian, what madhouse worse than than that could you envision?
(And please tell the kind folks in the studio audience which one of the two you were.)
[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 02-25-2002).]
Feb 25, 2002 | 11:09 am
#14
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You are grasping at straws guys.
Goldlust...sorry that is not a TOS as the word is not considered an expletive by major dictionaries. However, other words are labelled as 'vulgar slang' by major dictionaries.
NJDavid...can you please tell us which FT'er I was referring to? (Ya, that is what I thought).
The madhouse I refer to is a complete free-for-all on bashing other FT'ers...and you, NJDavid are in serious violation of just this.
Dorian
(spelling)
[This message has been edited by Dorian (edited 02-25-2002).]
Goldlust...sorry that is not a TOS as the word is not considered an expletive by major dictionaries. However, other words are labelled as 'vulgar slang' by major dictionaries.
NJDavid...can you please tell us which FT'er I was referring to? (Ya, that is what I thought).
The madhouse I refer to is a complete free-for-all on bashing other FT'ers...and you, NJDavid are in serious violation of just this.
Dorian
(spelling)
[This message has been edited by Dorian (edited 02-25-2002).]
Feb 25, 2002 | 12:35 pm
#15
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Isn't it always the case that the people who do the most bashing and are the least respectful of others complain the most when it is done to them.
Dorian, I say to you as I said before, you want me out the door for negative comments in questionable taste, you and the rest of the offenders come with me and I'll lead the way. Your form of "selective censorship" where friends can get away with murder but no one else is allowed (and heaven forbid you even glance in a mirror) is appalling and morally reprenhensible.
One board, one set of rules for all.
I have received more than 25 messages from other members of this community yesterday and today, thanking me for taking a stand that they are afraid to attach their name to, for fear of the kind of repraisals I have suffered here. That is a terrible shame.
Dorian, I say to you as I said before, you want me out the door for negative comments in questionable taste, you and the rest of the offenders come with me and I'll lead the way. Your form of "selective censorship" where friends can get away with murder but no one else is allowed (and heaven forbid you even glance in a mirror) is appalling and morally reprenhensible.
One board, one set of rules for all.
I have received more than 25 messages from other members of this community yesterday and today, thanking me for taking a stand that they are afraid to attach their name to, for fear of the kind of repraisals I have suffered here. That is a terrible shame.