Summary of the recent Rule Changes
 

We’re still waiting for the new rules to be posted on the Oneworld site; but in the meantime I have compared the previous rules (as published on the Oneworld web site on 1-October-2013) and the rules that currently show in Expert Flyer (see post #66 above)

GeneralRule 1Rule 2(e)It will be interesting to see how the online tool handles the new rule

*Correction: In the case of "One in each Zone" there is no requirement for one of them to be a transfer without stopover. I have tested this in the tool and it allows each to have stopovers (test itinerary: CPT-oLHR-oMAD-JFK-SYD-MEL-oDOH-oCAI-oDOH-CPT)

No. This rule has been around since the version of Mar-2012. The words "or by surface" were added in the version of Nov-2012

I think you are confusing the continent of Europe/Middle East with one of the two Zones into which the continent is now split.
You are allowed to start in SA and finish in NBO - but the rule now is that the visits to Europe/Middle East cannot both be in the Europe Zone. (They can both be in the Middle East Zone, or you can have one in each Zone)

So for example, these are OK:But you cannot have:

But these aren't two passes through Europe, which is what I am complaining about and we used to be able to do.

I was reffering to normal people's definition of Europe and not the OW one that includes the Middle East (when it suits them to). ;)

This also means they are forcing us to use QR on one of these sectors and BA on the other. Perhaps that was part of the deal with Willie and the QR lot? ;) (conspriacy theories abound) :D

Finally it also means one less F sector on an AONEx as to my knowledge QR don't operate an F cabin to any African destination. (Happy to be proven wrong though).

Rule 3.2.3 is stating that

IF you want an itineraryTHENIF you want a Europe-Middle East sector in your itinerary, then have your two visits to Europe/Middle East be to/from the same ZONE

For example these are valid:
JNB-xDOH-JFK...HKG-LHR-DOH-NBO (both visits to/from the Middle East zone and with Europe-Middle East sectors)

DAR-LHR-MCT-LHR-HKG...JFK-xLHR-NBO (both visits in the Europe zone and with Europe-Middle East sectors)

If you want to include either Sth Africa and/or Mauritius in your itinerary, then yes I cannot see any way to get two passes through the Europe Zone

Again, only if you want Sth Africa and/or Mauritius
You are allowed say LUN-LHR.....LHR-LUN

Sadly I think you're right:(

I see your point. It seems they have deliberately stopped people adding in mileage run type sectors to and from ME from LHR when starting and ending in Africa.

Also the restrictions for SA originating bookings make them much less desirable as well.

Oh well it was good while it lasted.

Not sure I agree with you;)
I'm busy dissecting the new rule and intend to post my thoughts shortly

But for now I would say that an itinerary such as
CPT-DOH-LHR-DOH-JFK...MEL-xDOH-CPT appears to be valid (cannot test it online because cannot start with a QR flight)

Ah yes but you note I said 'from LHR' :p Pedantry I know but it does limit where you can go next using your example.

Maybe the solution is to only do DONEs from here on in and these rules don't seem so restrictive. :)

Fascinating following this and trying to understand all these new rules with regards Africa - based in Cape Town it makes a big difference - but a PITA that you cannot use the on-line tool for a XONEX starting on QR - even for pricing purposes.
I am hoping that the following routing will be permissible: CPT-DOH-MXP-DOH-YUL-MIA-MEX-SCL-GRU-EZE-JFK-HKG-KUL-NRT-PVG-DOH-CPT with no stop overs on the EZE-JFK-HKG and the PVG-DOH-CPT sectors.

Right, but now it specifically says "Middle East" which it did not prior to these new rules. Obviously Middle East was included in Europe zone before but with the new QF and QR flights it appear they want to point out you cannot skip Asia with these flights.

I think you are missing this part
which precludes those routings.

Looks valid to me
It complies with the rule

Ah Ha. Got it!

The new rule is And your saying the words I've emphasised in red have been added?
Checking back through old versions of the rules, it turns out those words were added to the Nov-2012 version. And none of us noticed!

To aid the discussion, I have re-typed the new rules for travel that backtracks between Europe/Middle East and Africa:

The new version of the Rule Sheet is now available on the Oneworld web site - here

I think I am correct, but since these are new rules I could be wrong:)

Neither of the two itineraries I claimed are valid are making use of the backtracking provisions in 4.E.3.1.3 or 3.2.3

JNB-xDOH-JFK...HKG-LHR-DOH-NBO is making use of the provisions in 3.2.2
DAR-LHR-MCT-LHR-HKG...JFK-xLHR-NBO is making use of the provisions in 3.2.1
and each of these rules allow segments between the two Zones (Europe and Middle East)

This is all too confusing. :confused:

Who flies DAR-LHR?

Agree they have made it ridiculously complicated. Agents who deal with these tickets are going to pull their hair out. There has been enough confusion over the years on comparatively simple rules like the backtracking in Aus and the transit via Asia / SWP rules. This is way more complex to try to comprehend.

:o Well BA used to (when did it stop?)

Substitute any other African airport - from which an airline flies to the Europe Zone - but not from Sth Africa or Mauritius!

All clear?
Apologies for any confusion caused

Does my post #95 help at all?

There does seem to be a little more flexibility for me - the new rule about transit through the ME to Africa benefits me, as it now gives me an option to fly JNB-Europe-SWP-North America-ME-JNB - previously you couldn't do this, as you fell foul of the rule of not being able to touch Europe twice if you were in South Africa. Previously I could only fly westerly (JNB-Europe-North America-SWP).

Another benefit on continental entries and exits:

This means you can fly QF2 from LHR to SYD *AND* then backtrack to Asia. That's another benefit.

The previous rule was certainly more restrictive, and you couldn't originate in SA, return to SA and have the second transit of Europe. The transit was only allowed to be to/from certain African countries (and SA wasn't one of them)

This one has been around a long time

Is Israel in the Europe zone or the Middle East zone?

I can't find Israel in the document at all.

No way to do S.A.-SWP-Asia-N.A.-Europe-S.A.?
 

It's not possible to start in JNB and go to Australia, then Asia, then North America, then Europe, then end back in JNB, because both the JNB-SYD and Asia-U.S. flights would cross the Pacific? I was hoping to find a way to use AA over the water for two flights (Europe and Asia) rather than just one, so I can upgrade. Also, it would allow visiting both South Africa and Australia during their summer, and with a suitably long stop-off in the U.S., visiting Europe in its summer or fall.

JNB-SYD flights on QF are permitted. (It crosses the Indian Ocean)

So there should be nothing incorrect about JNB-SYD-HKG-LAX-JFK-LHR-JNB.
Equally JNB-HKG-SYD-LAX-JFK-LHR-JNB should also work.
However you will need to purchase an xONE5 ticket in both cases.

Happy wandering.

Fred

Africa-SWP-Asia-NorthAmerica-Eu-Africa is OK by Mileage Monkey:- JNB-SYD-HKG-LAX-LHR-JNB
JNB-SYD is over the Indian Ocean, not the Pacific
I have done SWP-EU-SAmerica-NAmerica-Asia-SWP

That's been around for years. I make use of it on most of my xONEx's.

We have done JNB-HKG-SYD-LAX-LHR-JNB, but I thought we couldn't do JNB-SYD-NRT-DFW-LHR-JNB. My recollection when we tried is that it ran afoul of:

I think it was the online tool that rejected it. I thought it was the (a) clause but maybe it was the (b) clause. Either way, now I think the rejection was itself an error, since as wandering_fred and Mwenenzi point out, JNB-SYD doesn't cross the Pacific, and since both routes are the same TC2-TC3-TC1.

I wish I'd realized this before booking our 2013 and 2014 RTWs! (The 2013 is flown, and if we changed the 2014 we'd have to pay the extra $1k fare increase.) Maybe we'll do this for 2015. Especially with the AA 777-300 flight HKG-DFW.

I agree that the rejection itself must have been an error.
There was nothing wrong with your itinerary

As for your 2014 itinerary - after the flying the first flight you can make routing changes; you will have to pay the USD125 change fee but not the fare increase. See rule 11(a)(2)

Sure, but since the first flight is JNB-HKG, it doesn't help. (The only way to switch JNB-HKG-SYD-LAX to JNB-SYD-HKG-DFW would be before taking JNB-HKG, which means paying the fare increase.)

Yes - looks like you're stuck with either flying JNB-HKG or paying the fare increase

But JNB-HKG-SYD-HKG-DFW is valid

One of the visits to Asia has to be a transfer without stopover

This makes use of the second visit to Asia provision - rule 2(e)(2)This rule has sometimes been interpreted as requiring the transfer without stopover to be only between SWP and Europe. BUT the online tool allows other transits and so has the AA RTW desk - for instance earlier this year we transited Asia between YVR and PER and later returned there for stopovers.

Presume you're wanting to try AA's soon to be HKG-DFW flight?

New rules posted Dec 1. The biggest difference I can see:
Looks like my email worked. :D

The rule may have changed, but the execution hasn't. Still booking in L in the tool.

Wow. Could this finally be a change that works in the passenger's favour?

Kudos^

The only other change I can spot is that West Palm Beach has been added to the Column A places from/to which a single transcon is allowed

darn, just missed this by a couple days :(

[QUOTE=pandaperth;21717669]Yes - looks like you're stuck with either flying JNB-HKG or paying the fare increase

"One of the visits to Asia has to be a transfer without stopover

This makes use of the second visit to Asia provision - rule 2(e)(2)
This rule has sometimes been interpreted as requiring the transfer without stopover to be only between SWP and Europe. BUT the online tool allows other transits and so has the AA RTW desk - for instance earlier this year we transited Asia between YVR and PER and later returned there for stopovers."

So does this mean that you can transit US to Europe via Qatar without it being counted as an Asian stop? Or is Qatar considered to be in Europe?

[QUOTE=ieuan1;22003223]Qatar is in Middle East/Europe

( Since when were Egypt/Libya/Sudan anywhere near the Middle East )

This was a question asked by ieuan1, not me;)

As you said Dave - Qatar is in Middle East/Europe
but to answer ieuan1's question more fully - yes you can fly from US to Qatar and then on to Europe. But it is not considered to be a transit of some other continent. Qatar is part of the continent defined in the ticket rules to be Europe/Middle East and you're just deciding to arrive in that continent at Qatar and then later move on to some other parts of the continent (and by the way you can of course stopover in Qatar, no need for it to be a transit)



Since always - have they been near the Middle East that is

However for the purposes of the Oneworld Explorer (and other Oneworld tickets too such as the Global Explorer) they are actually considered to be part of the Middle East.
Which is nice - because you can take advantage of the rule allowing itineraries that commence in a Middle Eastern country to end in any other Middle Eastern country (for example this year we commenced our DONE4 in Sudan and ended it in Dubai)