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Old Oct 16, 2008 | 7:39 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by IC6A
I have read CX Condition of Carriage very carefully and they would provide hotel accomodation but no OneWorld condition or booking class condition mentioned.
Surely your contract and expectations should be based on both the Conditions of Carriage and the Fare Rules for the specific fare you are purchasing.Its not as though there is lack of disclosure here by the airline - just unrealistic (?unreasonable) expectations by the passenger. The Fare Rules are quite clear:

RULE - 334/3015 UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED AA/AY/BA/CX/IB/JC/JL/JO/KA/LA/LP/MA/NU/QF/RJ/XL/4M ONEWORLD EXPLORER FARES APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR FIRST/BUSINESS/ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE.
TYPES OF TRANSPORTATION FARES GOVERNED BY THIS RULE CAN BE USED TO CREATE ROUND-THE-WORLD JOURNEYS.
TRAVEL MUST BEGIN AND END AT THE SAME POINT EXCEPT ORIGIN-DESTINATION SURFACE SEGMENTS PERMITTED AS FOLLOWS- A/ WITHIN THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN.
B/ WITHIN THE MIDDLE EAST C/ BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA D/ BETWEEN HKG AND CHINA E/ BETWEEN MALAYSIA AND SIN F/ WITHIN AFRICA ----- CAPACITY LIMITATIONS THE NUMBER OF SEATS ON ANY GIVEN FLIGHT IS CAPACITY LIMITED.
OTHER CONDITIONS FARES APPLY ONLY IF PURCHASED PRIOR TO DEPARTURE.
----- A MINIMUM OF 3 AND A MAXIMUM OF 16 SEGMENTS INCLUDING SURFACE SEGMENTS BETWEEN ANY 2 AIRPORTS ARE PERMITTED FOR THE ENTIRE JOURNEY.
---- THE FARE TO BE CHARGED IS DETERMINED BY THE NUMBER OF GEOGRAPHIC CONTINENTS IN THE ITINERARY INCLUDING THE CONTINENT OF ORIGIN.
CONTINENTS ARE DEFINED AS - EUROPE AND MIDDLE EAST-INCLUDING EKATERINBURG/ ALGERIA/MOROCCO/TUNISIA/EGYPT/SUDAN AFRICA ASIA SOUTHWEST PACIFIC NORTH AMERICA-INCLUDING CARIBBEAN/CENTRAL AMERICA/PANAMA SOUTH AMERICA ----- THE DATE OF THE FIRST INTERCONTINENTAL SECTOR DETERMINES THE APPLICABLE SEASONAL FARE FOR THE ENTIRE JOURNEY.
SEASONALITY WILL BE DETERMINED BY THE COUNTRY OF COMMENCEMENT OF TRAVEL.
IF THE OUTBOUND INTERCONTINENTAL SECTOR IS OPEN DATED CHARGE THE PEAK SEASON FARE.
----- PASSENGER EXPENSES - NOT PERMITTED.
----- BAGGAGE REGULATIONS - THE PIECE SYSTEM APPLIES TO PASSENGERS TRAVELING ON A ONEWORLD EXPLORER FARE.
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Old Oct 16, 2008 | 7:44 am
  #17  
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Originally Posted by 3544quebec
Surely your contract and expectations should be based on both the Conditions of Carriage and the Fare Rules for the specific fare you are purchasing.Its not as though there is lack of disclosure here by the airline - just unrealistic (?unreasonable) expectations by the passenger.

<...rest snipped...> (my bolding added)
That just about sums it up. xONEx's are sufficiently flexible that an itinerary can be constructed that will suit you.

If the OP wishes to go to DPS, it is hardly the airlines fault (although why they would want to go there is another matter entirely, it is a dump!)

Dave
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Old Oct 16, 2008 | 12:00 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by IC6A
... On my itinerary I am required to be in JFK and HKG both for 22 hours transit and the itinerary read as LAS X JFK X HKG DPS HKG...etc. 20 hours in JFK and 22 hours in HKG.
Gee, you could change the itinerary LAS x LAX x HKG x DPS that minimizes transits times. In fact, most of the flights from the USA arrive in HKG during the morning hours so that one can connect the same day. The airlines do provide convenient connections. Alas, you did not select it.
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Old Oct 17, 2008 | 4:28 am
  #19  
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Some realistic question:

How many passengers would actually read the full terms and conditions of the XONEX?

How many passengers would have known the term of "passenger expenses"?

How many passengers were told the condition of "passenger expenses" when they purchased XONEX with airlines or agents? (At least not me!)

Thank you guys who made a point without personal attacks.
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Old Oct 17, 2008 | 4:42 am
  #20  
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Originally Posted by IC6A
Some realistic question:

How many passengers would actually read the full terms and conditions of the XONEX?

How many passengers would have known the term of "passenger expenses"
FWIW, I did not know what "passenger expenses" were until I saw them appear in a revision of the xONEx rules.

I asked the question here and was enlightened. TBH I did not know such existed before then.
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Old Oct 17, 2008 | 4:48 am
  #21  
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CX contract of carriage

(b) en route ground services
hotel accommodations and other services
(1) when requested by passenger, carrier's
representatives will make application on their
behalf for hotel reservations, but the
availability thereof is not guaranteed. All
expenses incurred by carrier or its
representatives in arranging, or attempting to
arrange, for reservations will be chargeable to
passengers except as otherwise provided in this
tariff.
(2) hotel expenses are not included in passenger
fares, except that carrier may absorb such expense
under the following conditions:
(a) at any scheduled stopping point on a single
carrier through flight, provided that:
(i) the passenger, before arrival at a
stopping point of a through flight is
ticketed or holds confirmed space
onwards on such flight; and
(ii) such expenses will not be absorbed
beyond 24 hours after arrival at the
stopping point, unless required for
operational reasons.
(b) at any points where carrier's flight connects
with another of its flights, or with the
flight of another carrier, provided that:
(i) the passenger, before arrival at a
connecting point between flights of the
same or another carrier is ticketed
onward from such point, whether on a
confirmed space or requested basis or
holds confirmed space onward from such
points;
(ii) such expenses shall not be absorbed
beyond the departure of the next
scheduled flight of the carrier on which
the passenger is ticketed and holds
confirmed space or beyond 24 hours after
arrival at the connecting point,
whichever is earlier,
(iii) such expense will not be absorbed where
there are onward connecting services of
any carrier, within 24 hours, to the
passenger's destination or next
connecting or stopover point as shown on
the passenger's ticket but the passenger
does not depart from the connecting
point within 24 hours; and
(vi) where there are no such connecting
services of any carrier within 24 hours,
such expenses will only be absorbed up
to a maximum period of 24 hours
irrespective of the carrier on whose
service the passenger is booked for
onward transportation from the
connecting point provided the passenger
departs on the first connecting service
of the onward carrier shown on the
ticket.
Exception 1: Carrier will not absorb expenses at
connecting points in the u.s.a./
mexico for passengers
originating in, destined to, or
having a turnaround point in that
area.
Exception 2: Carrier will not absorb expenses at
connecting point in area 1 for
passengers traveling across the
atlantic ocean to/from a point in
area 2 or
to/from a point in area 1 outside
the u.s.a./mexico.
Exception 3: Carrier will not absorb expenses at
connecting points within europe for
passengers whose travel is wholly
performed within that area.
Exception 4: Carrier will not absorb expenses at
connecting points in australia, new
zealand or fiji for passengers
originating in, destined to, or
having a turnaround point in
australia, new zealand or fiji
respectively.
Exception 5: When travel is wholly within area
3, carrier will not absorb expenses
at connecting points in the
southwest pacific for passenger
originating in, destined to, or
having a turnaround point in the
southwest pacific.
Exception 6: When travel is wholly within area
3, carrier will not absorb expenses
at connecting points for passengers
traveling on an inclusive tour
based on a fare other than a normal
fare.
Exception 7: When travel is wholly within area
1, carrier will not absorb expenses
at connecting points.
Note: For the purpose of this rule, the
connecting point to which a passenger
holds, or held, confirmed space on a
flight of one carrier and out of which
the passenger holds, or held, confirmed
space on a flight of the same carrier or
another carrier shall be deemed to be a
single connecting point when the
receiving carrier has confirmed
reservations to the delivering carrier.
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Old Oct 17, 2008 | 4:52 am
  #22  
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Originally Posted by headinclouds
Gee, you could change the itinerary LAS x LAX x HKG x DPS that minimizes transits times. In fact, most of the flights from the USA arrive in HKG during the morning hours so that one can connect the same day. The airlines do provide convenient connections. Alas, you did not select it.
You get it wrong. XLONX give you the fexibility to choose the route you WANT. In my case I prefer to transit in JFK. That is the story. Plus I can not take CX889 (?) because of the visa reason stated in IATA TIMATIC. The gound staff have the right to deny my boarding should I chose CX889.
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Old Oct 17, 2008 | 5:27 am
  #23  
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Look - the answer is NO. Move on!

If that's not the answer you want to hear then please go and ask the question somewhere else!
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Old Oct 17, 2008 | 5:58 am
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Originally Posted by christep
Look - the answer is NO. Move on!

If that's not the answer you want to hear then please go and ask the question somewhere else!
^^^
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Old Oct 17, 2008 | 6:44 am
  #25  
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Originally Posted by christep
I'm afraid you're living in some sort of dream world. If they only flew to Bali once a week should they put you in a hotel for 6 nights? If the schedules don't work for you then choose another airline.

Moreover, your contract is with AA, not CX.
Listen, I am not greedy. I just want to know whether transit hotel is part of the ticket, or if not what is the reason. Every little helps. If the transit hotel is provided that would be great. If not I do not mind to pay by myself as I get all the points and status night with hotel group I prefered. I am here to seek advise in order to plan my trip, and maybe with me bring up the question could eventually help others a little bit if they have the same question but have no idea whom to ask from. You might be great if you could answer with a little bit helpful attitude.

The situation you mentioned above is not "transit" but "stopover".

Sadly nobody here mentioned on their XONEX trip what had happened during such a long time transit situation. Many of you (e.g. u) are simply quote the T & C. It doesn't help at all. Because this particular term actually crash with some OW airlines's contract of carriage.
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Old Oct 17, 2008 | 12:10 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by IC6A
Sadly nobody here mentioned on their XONEX trip what had happened during such a long time transit situation. Many of you (e.g. u) are simply quote the T & C. It doesn't help at all. Because this particular term actually crash with some OW airlines's contract of carriage.
It doesn't clash (or even crash) at all.

From the T&C's you quoted:

(2) hotel expenses are not included in passenger
fares, except that carrier may absorb such expense
under the following conditions:

...snipped...

(b) at any points where carrier's flight connects
with another of its flights, or with the
flight of another carrier, provided that:
(i) the passenger, before arrival at a
connecting point between flights of the
same or another carrier is ticketed
onward from such point, whether on a
confirmed space or requested basis or
holds confirmed space onward from such
points;
(ii) such expenses shall not be absorbed
beyond the departure of the next
scheduled flight of the carrier on which
the passenger is ticketed and holds
confirmed space or beyond 24 hours after
arrival at the connecting point,
whichever is earlier,
Note the part I highlighted - MAY, not WILL. Since the CX T&C's say that they MAY (not WILL) but the fare rules of the fare you are using say they WON'T, there is no clash if they do not cover the expenses.

Dave
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Old Oct 17, 2008 | 12:41 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by IC6A
Some realistic question:

How many passengers would actually read the full terms and conditions of the XONEX?

How many passengers would have known the term of "passenger expenses"?

How many passengers were told the condition of "passenger expenses" when they purchased XONEX with airlines or agents? (At least not me!)

Thank you guys who made a point without personal attacks.

I wouldn't expect many passengers to read the full terms and conditions of the XONEX. But I do think it would be realistic to think that someone who posted the following would read them.

"I have read CX Condition of Carriage very carefully and they would provide hotel accomodation but no OneWorld condition or booking class condition mentioned."

If its important enough for you to carefully read the CX's General Conditions then it would be reasonable to assume that you would read the specific conditions applicable to your fare.

And without wishing to get personal, if you consider these sorts of posts to be personal attacks rather than just frank expressions of points of view -well you'll need to develop a tougher hide to survive Flyertalk
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Old Oct 17, 2008 | 12:50 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by thadocta
It doesn't clash (or even crash) at all.

From the T&C's you quoted:



Note the part I highlighted - MAY, not WILL. Since the CX T&C's say that they MAY (not WILL) but the fare rules of the fare you are using say they WON'T, there is no clash if they do not cover the expenses.

Dave
In addition I am unable to find the material the OP quoted in the CX Conditions of Carriage which may be found here. The material quoted by the OP is part of the general conditions of CX's International Tariff (found here) which are probably more obscure for the general passenger than the fare rules. These general tariff rules are incorporated in the rules for the particular fare but as Dave points out whether they are applicable depends on the individual fare ("the carrier may").
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