AA says no date changes to first flight - is this correct?
May 28, 2008 | 1:36 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP 2MM; SPG GLD; Hilton GLD
Posts: 340
AA says no date changes to first flight - is this correct?
I'm trying to ticket an Ex-CPT DONE5 for next May.
I know AA can't book that far out, so I'm just trying to put in a placeholder date for a BA flight CPT-LHR. However, BA has limited D availability that far out.
I'd be happy to book for March if I knew I could move the flight out, but AA's telling me no changes to the first flight without reissue.
Is this really the case?
Also, she's asking me how I plan to ticket this in the next 2 days. I assumed they would just submit it to CPT, but do I have to confirm this with their GSA there? Am I crazy to think this can get done that soon?
so much for well laid plans...
I know AA can't book that far out, so I'm just trying to put in a placeholder date for a BA flight CPT-LHR. However, BA has limited D availability that far out.
I'd be happy to book for March if I knew I could move the flight out, but AA's telling me no changes to the first flight without reissue.
Is this really the case?
Also, she's asking me how I plan to ticket this in the next 2 days. I assumed they would just submit it to CPT, but do I have to confirm this with their GSA there? Am I crazy to think this can get done that soon?
so much for well laid plans...
May 28, 2008 | 5:29 pm
#2
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AA are incorrect, if you were originating in the US (or TC1) they wold be (sort of) correct. However since you are originating in TC2 the rule 16(a)(1)(b) applies:
From the xONEx rules:
From the xONEx rules:
Code:
16. VOLUNTARY CHANGES/REROUTING/PENALTIES
(a) Rebooking/Rerouting
(1) Prior to departure
(a) Origin TC1
(1) Before ticket issuance - Permitted without penalty.
(2) After ticket issuance - Changes to the first international
flight and preceding flights are not permitted less than
seven days prior to the date of the first ticketed flight.
Date/time changes to other flights permitted at no charge.
Date/Time/oneworld Carrier changes are permitted without
reissue provided origin/destination/connecting points and
inventory remain the same.
Changes other than to Date/Time/oneworld carrier permitted
at a charge of USD125.00 per transaction.
(b) Origin TC2/3
Unlimited changes permitted without charge.
Date/Time/oneworld carrier changes are permitted without
reissue provided Origin/destination/connecting points and
inventory remain the same.
-------------
Local service fees may apply
May 29, 2008 | 12:52 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP 2MM; SPG GLD; Hilton GLD
Posts: 340
This is exactly what I quoted to them and they still insisted it doesn't apply to the first flight. I might have just got unlucky with the rep I landed as at one point (when I insisted that I could transit Europe a second time on my way to DAR), she asked "are you just trying to challenge me or are you actually interested in booking?".
I the end I just decided to ticket our SA portion over the long Easter weekend in April.
Still good to know.
I the end I just decided to ticket our SA portion over the long Easter weekend in April.
Still good to know.
May 29, 2008 | 3:00 am
#4
Join Date: May 2005
Location: YYJ
Programs: AA EXP, Flying Blue Platinum, Bonvoy titanium, AC 25k
Posts: 141
I received exactly the opposite opinion from the CPT agent to that given to the OP. I am booking a DONE4 out of JNB and was told specifically that I could change the first flight date without any problem. In my case, I am departing on CX and managed to get CX to book a D class seat for me on my desired date when AA said there was no availability. I plan to get the ticket issued by AA tomorrow with an earlier departure date and then give the tiicket number to CX to keep my desired (later) date.
May 29, 2008 | 10:31 am
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP 2MM; SPG GLD; Hilton GLD
Posts: 340
All sorted in the end: went with the Easter departure. Ticket is rated and Mindpearl will issue tomorrow. Taxes came out a bit high ZAR8640 (19%), but considering that I have 2 LHR stopovers (technically one is just a transit, but open-dated), I guess to be expected.
One question. If one of the LHR stopovers becomes a transit, do I get a refund on the APD? This will definitely happen with my BKK-LHR-DAR legs as I need to transit within 24 hours.
One question. If one of the LHR stopovers becomes a transit, do I get a refund on the APD? This will definitely happen with my BKK-LHR-DAR legs as I need to transit within 24 hours.
Jun 3, 2008 | 8:37 am
#7
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Valencia, Spain
Posts: 816
2/ .Message of our Tariffs Desk regarding your question:
******** IF PASSENGER CHANGES THE FIRST COUPON (DATE OR ROUTING) IT WILL BE REBOOKED AND REPRICED SO, THE NEW RULE WILL APPLY (16segments), BUT IF THE CHANGES ARE FOR AFTER DEPARTURE, THE OLD RULE WILL BE VALID ****** REGARDS / DUBTRF / 3FJ
Which seems to be contrary to what is stated in the RTW rules.
Do we have to wait until somebody tries to change a first flight date, to see which way the rule will fall?
Happy Travels.
Jun 3, 2008 | 8:59 am
#8
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 46,128
Now I'm getting the opposite info from Mindpearl:
2/ .Message of our Tariffs Desk regarding your question:
******** IF PASSENGER CHANGES THE FIRST COUPON (DATE OR ROUTING) IT WILL BE REBOOKED AND REPRICED SO, THE NEW RULE WILL APPLY (16segments), BUT IF THE CHANGES ARE FOR AFTER DEPARTURE, THE OLD RULE WILL BE VALID ****** REGARDS / DUBTRF / 3FJ
Which seems to be contrary to what is stated in the RTW rules.
2/ .Message of our Tariffs Desk regarding your question:
******** IF PASSENGER CHANGES THE FIRST COUPON (DATE OR ROUTING) IT WILL BE REBOOKED AND REPRICED SO, THE NEW RULE WILL APPLY (16segments), BUT IF THE CHANGES ARE FOR AFTER DEPARTURE, THE OLD RULE WILL BE VALID ****** REGARDS / DUBTRF / 3FJ
Which seems to be contrary to what is stated in the RTW rules.
Dave
Jun 3, 2008 | 10:03 am
#9
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PDX and Everywhere
Programs: *Alliance, OneWorld
Posts: 248
For what it's worth, I booked a new DONE4 just before the deadline, and I was also told that I couldn't change the first flight without a reissue.
However, they didn't say anything about not getting the 20 segments if I did that, just that the reissue fee would apply.
However, they didn't say anything about not getting the 20 segments if I did that, just that the reissue fee would apply.
Jun 3, 2008 | 10:59 am
#10
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Valencia, Spain
Posts: 816
The other thing that bothers me is that the quote from Dublin says that it will be "rebooked and repriced". I think we can all be fairly sure that the RTW prices will be going up again in the not very distant future.
Happy Travels.
Jun 3, 2008 | 7:42 pm
#11
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I am thinking that AA in Dublin have an AAcentric xONEx bible that may not highlight the different rules application between TC1 and the rest of the world.
Jun 4, 2008 | 9:35 am
#12
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PDX and Everywhere
Programs: *Alliance, OneWorld
Posts: 248
Anyway, hopefully I won't need to change the date and that will be easy, but it is ex-CMB and I'll be coming from JNB via HKG, so a few things could go wrong. We'll see.
Jun 5, 2008 | 5:50 pm
#13
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Valencia, Spain
Posts: 816
I had asked Mindpearl to check again, and she sent me this:
So it seems that our "Headquaters in the USA" concurs with the rating desk in Dublin.
It's not that you can't change the first flight; you can, and they accept that there will be no change fee, but it will be reissued under the new rules (which means only 16 segments) and, it will be at "current fare levels".
Which could be much worse than a change fee, given the way rates are likely to go!
So one way or another, I'd better get myself to JNB for Jan 28th!
BTW I have been very impressed by [employee name removed] at Mindpearl; very responsive to emails, promptly issued tickets, and dispatched them by UPS when she said she would.
All at a time when she must have been unusually busy.
Happy Travels.
Here is the answer from our Headquaters in the USA, regarding changing the first coupon on your ticket.
"For a change before departure after ticket issuance there is no charge for reissue but all other rules apply including the general rules.
As with any other type of fare, when the originating flight coupon is changed, the ticket is to be exchanged for a new ticket at current
rates and following all current rules.
So, even if changing from a LONE4 to another LONE4 (without penalty), all current fare levels and rules of the LONE4 must be followed.
Anytime you change the outbound flight, the original ticketed contract is invalidated; in this case, a reduction of maximum segments from 20 to 16."
"For a change before departure after ticket issuance there is no charge for reissue but all other rules apply including the general rules.
As with any other type of fare, when the originating flight coupon is changed, the ticket is to be exchanged for a new ticket at current
rates and following all current rules.
So, even if changing from a LONE4 to another LONE4 (without penalty), all current fare levels and rules of the LONE4 must be followed.
Anytime you change the outbound flight, the original ticketed contract is invalidated; in this case, a reduction of maximum segments from 20 to 16."
It's not that you can't change the first flight; you can, and they accept that there will be no change fee, but it will be reissued under the new rules (which means only 16 segments) and, it will be at "current fare levels".
Which could be much worse than a change fee, given the way rates are likely to go!
So one way or another, I'd better get myself to JNB for Jan 28th!
BTW I have been very impressed by [employee name removed] at Mindpearl; very responsive to emails, promptly issued tickets, and dispatched them by UPS when she said she would.
All at a time when she must have been unusually busy.
Happy Travels.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Jun 5, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Jun 10, 2008 | 9:49 pm
#14
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: China
Posts: 1,646
As you know, a ticket is valid for x days from the first flight. So if first flight date changes, the end validity date also changes.
Some airline systems decided to automate this re-validation, but most systems (including Amadeus and Sabre I think) decided that the logic to do this wasnt worth it, and that with ET, re-issuing rather than re-validating is a simpler approach. But a re-issue triggers checks on new fare, tax & fuel surcharges. Which, again, is not a bad thing from an airline POV.
Once youve started the journey, then any changes wont impact the final validity date, so not a problem
Some airline systems decided to automate this re-validation, but most systems (including Amadeus and Sabre I think) decided that the logic to do this wasnt worth it, and that with ET, re-issuing rather than re-validating is a simpler approach. But a re-issue triggers checks on new fare, tax & fuel surcharges. Which, again, is not a bad thing from an airline POV.
Once youve started the journey, then any changes wont impact the final validity date, so not a problem
Jun 12, 2008 | 1:58 am
#15
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Location: HEL
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Posts: 4,327
I have changed the first flight for an AA issued paper ticket without any problems, just a sticker on top of the original date/time and that was it. No charges whatsoever. This was TC2 and in mid 2007.