ideas for sticky - rules etc
#46
Original Member

Join Date: May 1998
Location: Portland OR Double Emerald (QF and AA), DL PM/MM, Starwood Plat
Posts: 19,593
Originally Posted by Shawn02139
fantastic thread. i'm planning on doing a rtw w/my girlfriend next summer to celebrate getting our ph.d....
1) Can someone post examples of a *ONE* iteneraries w/prices that will give people an idea of how one can get near-maximum status miles & prices.
1) Can someone post examples of a *ONE* iteneraries w/prices that will give people an idea of how one can get near-maximum status miles & prices.
#47
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SIN
Programs: SQ PPS, LH SEN, Amex something, nothing everywhere else
Posts: 994
Originally Posted by Shawn02139
1) Can someone post examples of a *ONE* iteneraries w/prices that will give people an idea of how one can get near-maximum status miles & prices. Obviously not for all combinations of *ONE* but simply to give good ballpark (e.g., best ONE3 itenerary?) I don't really have a sense of whether i should expect to get 20k 30k or 60k miles from a trip.
One idea to get around this would be to add a section on classic mileage runs, e.g. LHR-DXB-LHR, US near-transcons like JFK-PHX, SWP maximizers, etc. Giving mileage run building blocks is more feasible than entire itineraries.
#48
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Madrid, Spain & Santiago, Chile
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 3,181
Originally Posted by number_6
Some rumblings of further rule changes in Jan 2005 that will make the OWE much less attractive for status acquisition, so if you really want to do this better start within a few months. Each year the OWE fare/rules have changed to be less desirable, as the airlines tweak the product.
I take it that merely buying the ticket before 1.1.05 would be no insurance against these rule changes? To beat these 'rumblings' one would have to do the actual flying during 2004, right?
[PARANOIA]
OWE 2005: 16 segs only, much less attractive, rumblings, ... what next?

[/PARANOIA]
#49
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SIN
Programs: SQ PPS, LH SEN, Amex something, nothing everywhere else
Posts: 994
Originally Posted by Viajero
I take it that merely buying the ticket before 1.1.05 would be no insurance against these rule changes? To beat these 'rumblings' one would have to do the actual flying during 2004, right?
#50
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: None any more
Posts: 11,017
Originally Posted by Viajero
Quit raining on my 2005 OWE parade!!
I take it that merely buying the ticket before 1.1.05 would be no insurance against these rule changes? To beat these 'rumblings' one would have to do the actual flying during 2004, right?
I take it that merely buying the ticket before 1.1.05 would be no insurance against these rule changes? To beat these 'rumblings' one would have to do the actual flying during 2004, right?
#51
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Madrid, Spain & Santiago, Chile
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 3,181
Originally Posted by christep
... Note that changing the routing does NOT constitute a reissue...
#52
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: None any more
Posts: 11,017
Apologies, I phrased that badly.
What I meant was that on my reading of the rules, changes for rerouting are covered within the "contract" which is the one that you entered into when you bought the ticket. So it is not technically a reissue: it is a change that is permitted under the original contract. NOTE though that the rules explicitly say that for tickets originating in Area 1 (Americas) then a routing change before departure IS a reissue.
If you need to do something that isn't allowed within the "contract" then you have to cancel and issue a new ticket - this would be under the rules pertaining at the time.
The problem is that to get the contract under the "old" rules you need to issue the ticket before they change. That means you set the "Not Valid After" date for the whole itinerary as 12 months from the date of the first flight, as ticketed.
As I understand it, as you make changes to the ticket before departure, the Not Valid After date changes at each rewriting of the ticket to be:
- the NVA date in the previous version of the ticket, or 12 months from the first flight in the new version of the ticket, whchever is earlier.
So care is needed with these changes that you don't pull the start date too far forward unless you are sure you won't want to move it back into the future.
Hmmm... I hope someone can phrase that a bit better for the FAQ
What I meant was that on my reading of the rules, changes for rerouting are covered within the "contract" which is the one that you entered into when you bought the ticket. So it is not technically a reissue: it is a change that is permitted under the original contract. NOTE though that the rules explicitly say that for tickets originating in Area 1 (Americas) then a routing change before departure IS a reissue.
If you need to do something that isn't allowed within the "contract" then you have to cancel and issue a new ticket - this would be under the rules pertaining at the time.
The problem is that to get the contract under the "old" rules you need to issue the ticket before they change. That means you set the "Not Valid After" date for the whole itinerary as 12 months from the date of the first flight, as ticketed.
As I understand it, as you make changes to the ticket before departure, the Not Valid After date changes at each rewriting of the ticket to be:
- the NVA date in the previous version of the ticket, or 12 months from the first flight in the new version of the ticket, whchever is earlier.
So care is needed with these changes that you don't pull the start date too far forward unless you are sure you won't want to move it back into the future.
Hmmm... I hope someone can phrase that a bit better for the FAQ
#53
Original Member

Join Date: May 1998
Location: Portland OR Double Emerald (QF and AA), DL PM/MM, Starwood Plat
Posts: 19,593
Another way to phrase the important point that christep made: tickets are good for up to 2 years: the first flight must be within 12 months of the date of purchase, and the last flight must be within 12 months of the date of first flight. The rules are at the time of purchase, so you can lock in the rules for up to 2 years. BUT you cannot make any changes to the first flight (either date or routing) without losing the lock on the rules; if you do that (and the change is free!) then the ticket is repriced at the current price (on the date when you make the change) and the rules are changed to the rules on that date (effectively you have refunded the original ticket without penalty and bought a new one). So in this scenario you must fly the first segment as originally purchased. All other changes, after flying the first segment, can be made without affecting the ticket rules or price (but incur a USD75 change fee).
Sometimes rule changes occur with no notice (for the 20 segment rule there was about a month notice). The airlines are paying close attention to the rules now during re-issue, perhaps due to some of the past abuses that have happened, but I have found the rules to be fair. And no problem in re-issuing a pre-20 segment ticket, adding extra segments (even purchasing extra segments for a continent), after I pointed out the original issue date.
Sometimes rule changes occur with no notice (for the 20 segment rule there was about a month notice). The airlines are paying close attention to the rules now during re-issue, perhaps due to some of the past abuses that have happened, but I have found the rules to be fair. And no problem in re-issuing a pre-20 segment ticket, adding extra segments (even purchasing extra segments for a continent), after I pointed out the original issue date.
#55
Original Poster




Join Date: Aug 2003
Programs: BA, LH, BD
Posts: 1,486
please add a note to the bottom -
if you need further help please start a new thread- ? most long term stickies, i think tend to get ignored over time by Ft'ers -
or maybe lock it if no-one else has anything to add
good post me thinks
if you need further help please start a new thread- ? most long term stickies, i think tend to get ignored over time by Ft'ers -
or maybe lock it if no-one else has anything to add
good post me thinks
#56
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: None any more
Posts: 11,017
Good work here folks - thanks very much for bringing it together.
A couple of comments (sorry they are late - I've been travelling):
- On A&D tickets booking into Y on single-class flights: this is true for American Eagle, AY domestic and EI domestic, as well as LAN.
- On upgrades: you have misused "sector" when what you mean is "segment" as you have previously defined it. It is also possible to upgrade individual segments on CX using AsiaMiles.
- On "real First": CX offers real first also to FRA, SFO, SYD, MEL, CDG and on some flights to NRT, SIN, BKK, MNL, KIX, DXB, SEL, TPE, CGK
A couple of comments (sorry they are late - I've been travelling):
- On A&D tickets booking into Y on single-class flights: this is true for American Eagle, AY domestic and EI domestic, as well as LAN.
- On upgrades: you have misused "sector" when what you mean is "segment" as you have previously defined it. It is also possible to upgrade individual segments on CX using AsiaMiles.
- On "real First": CX offers real first also to FRA, SFO, SYD, MEL, CDG and on some flights to NRT, SIN, BKK, MNL, KIX, DXB, SEL, TPE, CGK
#57
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SIN
Programs: SQ PPS, LH SEN, Amex something, nothing everywhere else
Posts: 994
Eamus, many thanks for pulling it together. Excellent stuff.
One question and one comment:
The continents are counted even if you only change planes there (eg. stopping in Asia on a flight from Europe to Australia), and the continent count includes the continent of origin.
and
You can backtrack within countries and continents, but you cannot re-enter a continent after leaving it, except: (a) a transit without stopover in Asia on a flight between Europe and SWP or vice versa,
Is the order relevant? Could you do a one-segment Europe to Australia flight and then re-enter Asia to travel around? The way I parse this means that the non-stopover transit continent re-entry has to come after you've done your traveling in the continent which you're re-entering. I.e. you can't do LHR-SIN-SYD-MEL-BNE-SYD-SIN-BKK-HGK-... route.
The flights across the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans do not count against any continent allowance, although obviously they do count against your 20 segment total allowance. There are, in addition, other restrictions you need to be aware of.
None of the intercontinental flights count towards the 20 segment limit, not just the transoceanic ones. If you fly LHR-CPT, it's an intercontinental flight, and does not count towards either the Europe or Africa stops.
One question and one comment:
The continents are counted even if you only change planes there (eg. stopping in Asia on a flight from Europe to Australia), and the continent count includes the continent of origin.
and
You can backtrack within countries and continents, but you cannot re-enter a continent after leaving it, except: (a) a transit without stopover in Asia on a flight between Europe and SWP or vice versa,
Is the order relevant? Could you do a one-segment Europe to Australia flight and then re-enter Asia to travel around? The way I parse this means that the non-stopover transit continent re-entry has to come after you've done your traveling in the continent which you're re-entering. I.e. you can't do LHR-SIN-SYD-MEL-BNE-SYD-SIN-BKK-HGK-... route.
The flights across the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans do not count against any continent allowance, although obviously they do count against your 20 segment total allowance. There are, in addition, other restrictions you need to be aware of.
None of the intercontinental flights count towards the 20 segment limit, not just the transoceanic ones. If you fly LHR-CPT, it's an intercontinental flight, and does not count towards either the Europe or Africa stops.
#58
Original Poster




Join Date: Aug 2003
Programs: BA, LH, BD
Posts: 1,486
the ba pdf link (oneworld map) doesn't seem to work anymore-
replace with this
http://www.rtwinfo.co.uk/ft/explorerlatest.pdf
also include a link to the star files somewhere?
replace with this
http://www.rtwinfo.co.uk/ft/explorerlatest.pdf
also include a link to the star files somewhere?
Last edited by ajinlondon; Jul 20, 2004 at 8:25 am
#59


Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Nashvegas
Posts: 868
Originally Posted by ajinlondon
the ba pdf link (oneworld map) doesn't seem to work anymore-
replace with this
http://www.rtwinfo.co.uk/ft/explorerlatest.pdf
also include a link to the star files somewhere?
replace with this
http://www.rtwinfo.co.uk/ft/explorerlatest.pdf
also include a link to the star files somewhere?
#60


Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Nashvegas
Posts: 868
Originally Posted by WearyBizTrvlr
Eamus, many thanks for pulling it together. Excellent stuff.
One question and one comment:
The continents are counted even if you only change planes there (eg. stopping in Asia on a flight from Europe to Australia), and the continent count includes the continent of origin.
and
You can backtrack within countries and continents, but you cannot re-enter a continent after leaving it, except: (a) a transit without stopover in Asia on a flight between Europe and SWP or vice versa,
Is the order relevant? Could you do a one-segment Europe to Australia flight and then re-enter Asia to travel around? The way I parse this means that the non-stopover transit continent re-entry has to come after you've done your traveling in the continent which you're re-entering. I.e. you can't do LHR-SIN-SYD-MEL-BNE-SYD-SIN-BKK-HGK-... route.
One question and one comment:
The continents are counted even if you only change planes there (eg. stopping in Asia on a flight from Europe to Australia), and the continent count includes the continent of origin.
and
You can backtrack within countries and continents, but you cannot re-enter a continent after leaving it, except: (a) a transit without stopover in Asia on a flight between Europe and SWP or vice versa,
Is the order relevant? Could you do a one-segment Europe to Australia flight and then re-enter Asia to travel around? The way I parse this means that the non-stopover transit continent re-entry has to come after you've done your traveling in the continent which you're re-entering. I.e. you can't do LHR-SIN-SYD-MEL-BNE-SYD-SIN-BKK-HGK-... route.
Originally Posted by WearyBizTrvlr
The flights across the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans do not count against any continent allowance, although obviously they do count against your 20 segment total allowance. There are, in addition, other restrictions you need to be aware of.
None of the intercontinental flights count towards the 20 segment limit, not just the transoceanic ones. If you fly LHR-CPT, it's an intercontinental flight, and does not count towards either the Europe or Africa stops.
None of the intercontinental flights count towards the 20 segment limit, not just the transoceanic ones. If you fly LHR-CPT, it's an intercontinental flight, and does not count towards either the Europe or Africa stops.

