I am at the decision point about which FF scheme to put my miles in for 2003, and I would appreciate the comments of the experts here before committing myself in a couple of weeks.

I do more than 90% of my flying on OneWorld, with all of the long haul in either paid business (using DONEs generally) or paid economy upgraded to business using miles. The short haul is a mix of segments on the ONEs or economy if bought separately.

For the past three years (i.e. more or less ever since I came to HK and worked my way up the tiers) I have been MPC Diamond. But thanks to the insights from FT I am now coming to the conclusion that this was a mistake, and I would get better returns from another scheme. I am not thinking of changing my travel planning significantly, just changing the FF scheme I book to.

My Diamond has just renewed through January 2004. I am currently Plat on AA through Feb 2004, and Silver on BA through April 2003 (but with no credit in the last year, so Blue from then). I have a QF "bronze" (no status).

My travel plans for the year are not yet finalised, but I believe I will run up just about enough qualifying miles to get to EXP in AA or retain Diamond on MPC if I put everything in one scheme or the other.

BA in HK feeds into AsiaMiles, without Tier bonuses, so it really doesn't give me anything above CX.

I would prefer to use my HK address, but I could use one in the UK or (at a pinch) in the US if the benefits justified it.

It seems to me that the Pros and cons of moving to AA vs staying with MPC are as follows:

+1) 2.25 miles per long haul mile vs 1.25

+2) 100,000 vs 120,000 Q-miles to qualify for Emerald.

+3) Credit towards lifetime status with AA (though of course this can be withdrawn at any time as CX did with their equivalent scheme a few years back)

+4) Somewhat cheaper reward tickets (this varies a bit, but AA has a stunningly good J-F upgrade on CX for example).

-1) I lose business class Wing access when flying non-OW

-2) I lose some priority on waitlisting etc

-3) (Not sure) I lose the First priority baggage tagging on CX

-4) I lose the guaranteed lowest published fare Y availability on CX.

-5) I have to fly AA across the Atlantic rather than BA.

-6) I can't get miles for LMS sub-classes on CX.

Am I missing something, or is this really a "no brain" decision to go to AAdvantage?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

chris,

i made the decision of switching from CX Dm to AA EXPLT 2 years ago (i moved from HK to US then), and i am staying with AA afetr i moved back to HK.

i think your analysis is mostly right, just some comments

+1) upgrades policy on AA flights (it is alot more useful if you are based in AA and fly a lot of AA domestic, but i guess it doesnt affect you much). there was e-upgrades2mile conversion which made the mile factor 3.25 2 years ago, but now it was gone.

+4) the incredible CX F/J award ex-USA. but again, it helps less if you are not based in US

+5) VIPOW on AA, which you can use to upgrade on transatlantic. i.e. AA F is BETTER than BA J !

+6) there are many bonus for CX flight for AADV members (repeated reward bonus/etc). check out cx-usa.com for details

-0) access to AC/FL when flying US domestic -- again, it wont impact you i guess

-1) this is one of the major minus for ppl based in HKG. btw, how many non-OW flights do you take ex-HKG?

-3) not true. i think all emerald get F baggage on OW flights, even if you get J tags, it is only 30-60 seconds after F baggages

-4) this is the other (adn the biggest) minus. however, i think you would be dropped to Gold and will have another years of decent treatment on CX (48 hoursw vs 24 hr)

i think you have covered most of the issues (except "+5"). my strategy had been AAEPLT + BA Silver (i ended up getting more than enough for BA Gold), to address the transtalantic issues before i got those VIPOW and AC/FL access issue. --- also because it is so easy to maintain BA Silver/Gold. i put all all the transatlantic (J) into BA, and everything else into AA.

if you end up getting BA Gold as well, you will have the BA lounge in HK when flying any airline.

the other option to get lounge access in HKG is to get the Citibank Platinum Visa/Master Card. you can access UA's F lounge. (or buy the priority pass)

----

my recommendation would be to go with AA.
however, it is also worthwhile to think about the following before switching
a) do you fly AA domestic
b) can you manage to get a Canadian address
c) would you be able to get BA SIlver on top of AA EXPLT (i believe so, if you can get CX diamond. you just have to put the extra 20k miles on J into BA -- you might even be able to reach Gold)
--- lax-lhr in J is 180 pts, 2 RT will get you to Silver, 5 RT get you BA GOLD, 3 RT is almost enough to renew GOLD afterwards. it is a lot easier if you got a EU address
d) how much non-OW ex-HKG flights will you take in a year?

the US address works better for AA/BA programs, i think (not sure though).
for BA, there were so many 3x mile awards that i got 4x miles (the other 100% being the Gold bonnus) on most trips!
for AA, i think you dont get miles for BA M class if you have a HK address -- which is the only difference, i think.


[This message has been edited by pegasus8228 (edited 01-05-2003).]

I would like to second the idea of AA/BA. I am pushing for AA EXP PLT but have been happy being AA PLT and BA Silver. I earned BA silver on my transatlantic flights but still have yet to understand better the tier system as I failed to qualify for 2004 though I dif fly 25k+.

Marco Polo seems to be stingy with mileage earned but then again, you get the better upgrade perks and can invite more guests with you to The Wing.

Other than that, I would go the AA route but do keep in mind, only YBH fares earn AA miles. This is okay when coming from the US but while working in Korea, I had some R fares intra-Asia on CX which did not count.

However, as OneWorld Sapphire like on AA, all flights out of HKG are international so you always get to the use the lounges and your miles earned are worth more with the fare sales offered on CX for AA members.

------------------
Going back to the bAAsics

If going for BA Gold, if you can use a Mainland European address, you will be able to get to Gold in v little time compared to elsewhere, needing 400 credits for silver and 800 for Gold rather than the 700 and 1700 needed elsewhere.. starting from scratch it will need 1200 rather than 2400 tier credits to reach gold

Dave

Thanks very much for the helpful comments

Are you sure that the CX J-F is only available ex-US? I don't read the website that way. I am aware that there is a requirement for the ticket to be on AA stock, but it shouldn't be too hard for me to arrange that on my ONEs.

I do have a Citibank Platinum Visa (the version attached to Cathay) but I am not aware of the lounge access. I assume this is a benefit for US based cards?

A number of the other benefits only relate to US-based AA accounts as well, so I am trying to work out whether I want the considerable hassle of using a US address, or just stick with the HK address that I currently use for AA...

A possible strategy is to make EXP in alternate years. If CX only drops you one level a year it might be attractive, also some airlines have targeted marketing programs for flyers whose usage has dropped. Not sure if it is worthwhile, but with AA makes this strategy viable as the primary EXP benefit (VIP certificates) is identical with alternate year qualification as with every year. I have enough travel to get top-tier in 3 programs so it isn't really a choice I have to make, but if my travel dropped I would probably try the alternate year strategy. Otherwise the MPC Diamond benefit of guaranteed discount fare access is a huge benefit, esp. as they would op-upgrade you on those sold-out flights. Makes for a very cheap business class fare (no wonder other airlines don't offer this benefit).

I'm CX-Diamond, and AA-Exec Plat.

I've decided to accrue all long haul mileage on AA, and renew CX under sectors.

CX is handy when it comes to fully booked flights as well getting UG'd ahead of other Oneworld members on CX flights.

AA is great for mileage accumulation especially when you consider the 100% bonus on all oneworld and Alaskan Airlines flights.

Somehow Asiamiles/MPC still don't get it, do they? Shall we, all MPC Diamond members perhaps write me a joint letter and ask that they review how they would like to retain their top tier members? Or do you think I should write into Business Traveller-Asia Pac edition to highlight what MPC lacks when compared to other Oneworld FF programme?

1. normal awards for AADV ex-hkg is the same as Asiamiles (although AM offers 30% discount on J awards in tourist seasons quite often)
2. cx j-f upgrade from FULL FARE Y-J is only for ex-USA i believe. (25K for Y to J, 40K for J-F)
3. the "incredible CX fare" i was refering to was the 140k mile for F usa-jfk-hkg-jnb, which is in addition to the normal OW mileage awards, and only avaialble for ex-USA, i believe
[so you still have all the normal ex-hkg awards, on top of that you will have the upgrade from full fare, and the 'ex-usa cx award']
[note BA also have the same CX ex-USA award, but AA offers you free connection on AA domestic. e.g. mia-jfk-hkg-syd on F for 140k miles, for US based BA, you have to start from CX ports]

4. i dont think it worths the hassle of getting a US address (the only difference is BA M class), vs a HK address. the Canadian address worths the hassle, if you have a lot of CX LMN classes

5. i think number6's strategy is worth considering, although there is some hassle of switching back and forth. GB's strategy also work, BUT you need to have 60 segments shorthaul on top of the 100k you put into AADV

6. citibank plat visa: the CX cobrand does not work. it has to be a non-co-brand, hk-based, card. if you have a citigold account, they will waive the annual fee (for both cards, i think).
Daoheng platinum visa gives you the Priority Pass for free (1-year, i think). But Plaza Premium is too small and crowded. It is useful for getting into F lounges in PEK/SHA though.
Banks in HK want you to take as many plastics as you could, it makes no sense for me, but that is what they do.
i have all those cards in my wallet (and a few more), but CX cobrand is the one i mainly use

hope this makes sense



[This message has been edited by pegasus8228 (edited 01-05-2003).]

Thanks again for all the comments.

I had been thinking about the "alternate year" strategy as well. Unfortunately, although I used to do 150+ segments a year on business that has now stopped and all I am likely to do is couple of DONE3s and a few shortish hauls in Asia/Aus, so I'll have to do some mileage running around N America on the DONEs even to get one Emerald.

By the way, GB what is it that you do that entails so much running around? And do you need a bag carrier?

As I understand it, the AA J-F 40K upgrade is for any business class fare (I know the Y-J is full fare), but I would welcome confirmation from anyone who has done it on a D-fare. I fear it has to be on a simple RT ticket though, which is a shame since I would like to use it on two back to back DONEs.

I'll have a look at the Citibank situation, though my experience with the CX cobrand to date is pretty poor (not very responsive customer service, and trying to renege on the T&Cs for Bonus Points (= AsiaMiles)).

Most of the issues have been well covered already. However, if you're in AA's program with an address outside the U.S. (I'm not sure how Canadians are treated in this regard) I believe you get AC/FL access within North America as well, even on purely North American itineraries. The reasoning seems to be that, if you're in North America, you are by definition on an international trip.

Whether or not this is still correct, and if it is whether or not all the lounge staff know it, and if they don't whether or not it's worth the hassle of convincing them, are still valid questions.

I think Plat/Exective Plat cards are the same for both U.S. and non-U.S. members. Accordingly, even if you are a non-U.S. member, you would not get access to AC if you are on a U.S. 'domestic' segment, not linked whatsoever to an international flight. At least, that has been my experiences. I was Plat with a Japanese address and have been for a few years Executive Plat with a Canadian address.

About the upgradability of D fare, I thought the point is whether it's endorsable to AA. If it's RTW, it should be endorsable. So it's OK. But I personally haven't tried it myself.

AA's award ticket offers are probably the best for Executive Platinum members, except last year's change about Y award tickets, whcih now require a 100$ fee for date changes even. But premium cabin awards are still data changeable without any fees. On CX, JFK-o/HKG-o/AKL-o/HKG-JFK is possible! Stopping over at each of these locations! I don't think MPC would allow this. Executive Platinums also do not need to pay any expedite fees. I find this very handy.

Yet, awards are awards. With AA, you cannot be waitlisted for partner airlines' awards.

I think MPC Diamond (and to a lessor extent Gold) is great because of that guaranteed seat availability. With Gold, you need 72 hours, though. Isn't this a benefit unparalleled? (I know LH Senators get a guaranteed seat but it's limited to J. SQ's PPS is out of question. A Y seat guarantee for a J ticket?)

i think Asiamiles award (MPO) does allow for stopover. but it probably cost you 250k miles to do jfk-hkg-akl.

with AA, not only jfk-hkg-akl is possible. you can actually connect to JFK from any US port. e.g. mia-jfk-hkg-akl (though the totally # of stopover is probably still limited to 2)

I wonder if my intended strategy can work.

I am currently MPC - bearly reaching Gold (if at all). I prefer flying on CX and hence have not yet joined AA. Although I do not have a lot of flown miles, I get a lot of credit and other consumer miles - well over 100,000 miles a year.

But from what I read here in FT, AA miles go a lot longer for upgrades and rewards. My main area of interest is getting upgraded or redeeming for long haul tickets, on CX, which means using HKG as gateway.

Therefore, my intended strategy - keep existing MPC account but start AA account and work on accumulating AA miles, not by flying , but by credit card etc. This takes less to upgrade/redeem. But some Qs-

Q1 - Is it a lot more difficult to redeem CX upgrades and flights using AA miles (as opposed to using CX MPC miles?)

Q2 - I never really understood the point about upgrading using AA points. From what I know, a US-HKG flight upgrade from econ-bus is 25K (return trip). For business to first, it takes 40K. But from what I read here, the econ ticket has to be full fare? What about the business ticket if I wanna go to first? Also, could I upgrade 2 segments of a ticket, eg with ticket JFK-HKG-MNL and return, can I just upgrade the JFK-HKG segments?

Q3- As I understand it, the upgrades/redemption on CX using AA pts can be ex-USA or ex-HKG. The pts used are the same. Or must the tickets be ex-USA?

Could the gurus here please enlighten me? Thanks.

for your situation, the main benefit for AA is the 100% bonus miles when flying AA.

if you are based in US, i think it may make sense for the switch. but i am not sure if you should split your consumer miles. your account may be too fragmented.
i think a redemption of jfk-mnl award in F will cost you some 180-200k asiamiles, but only 125k AADV miles. so it is cheaper, on top of the fact that the miles comes a lot faster to you.

as to your question
1) the difference is small, but MPO Gold gets you waitlisting and priority on CX inventory
2) yes, 25k Y-J award is for full fare Y only, otherwise, it takes some 50-80k or so to upgrade, i think.
3) the 25k/40k upgrade is for ALL cx segments RT. i.e. jfk-hkg-mnl-hkg-jfk, all the way, for J-F upgrade you have forfeited the hkg-mnl segments. for an ex-USA ticket
4) the normal OW awards are still available, whether ex-hkg or ex-usa. these specials deals we discussed are on top of the normal awards.
so for ex-hkg award it is roughly the same for both programs, but for ex-usa award you use a los less miles (125k for F to MNL)

ONE more point (for chris as well). asiamiles allows mileage upgrade on all fare, but i don't think aadv provides such option


[This message has been edited by pegasus8228 (edited 01-06-2003).]

one more plus for (friends of) CX Dm:

the guest you bring in to the F lounge can be travelling on any (non-OW) airline.
and you can bring 2 guests in.