I've been doing some preliminary research on what fare would be suitable for visiting a number of cities (Singapore, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Mexico City and Sao Paulo) and the Circle Pacific seemed to fit the bill, except for it being a little unclear on whether Mexico City fits in the routing restrictions. To me it looks like it would require flying on AA via DFW into MEX and then onto South America via MIA, again on AA.

So is that routing legal? Or is it just going to be a whole lot easier to get a RTW ticket and clock up some extra miles going via Europe rather than try and fit it into a Circle Pacific fare? The travel agents I've spoken with don't seem particuarly familiar with the restrictions on this fare, so weren't much assistance. Hopefully someone here's a bit more knowledgeable!

As far as I can tell from the fare rules as published by CX, the routing is permitted, but note the following extract requires you also to route via Australia (edited to note that that's where you are based so I guess this isn't a problem), and that the CIR29SA fare, from HK at least, is positioned roughly midway between the OWE4 & OWE5 fares for Y and F, and a little below the OWE4 fare for J:

"Travel originating in or including South America is only permitted on -CIR29SA Fares. Travel must be via the N/C Pacific in one direction and via Chile to/from the S.W. Pacific using services of QF/LA in the other.
- E.g. SLC/PPT surface AKL/SYD or SCL/AKL/SYD-.

Travel via the Caribbean and Central America is not permitted on any fare. "


[This message has been edited by christep (edited 01-05-2003).]

Thanks for that Christep, your input is certainly appreciated. It certainly gives me something to think about, and the price difference for Business with the Circle Pacific fare vs RTW fares does tempt me (the Circle Pacific is a couple of thousand dollars cheaper in business class in Australia). Might still be out of my price range to take business, but it's good to know the options before I sit in the back of the bus :-).

Can either of you give me a link to the fare rules for the Circle Pacific OW fare? I am planning to visit MEX and hopefully HAV later this year. If this can be done cheaper than the OWE4 or 5 (in J) it would be a real bonus. I know that MEX-HAV would have to be non-OW.

The rules I'd been using to check out the trip were the ones listed on Fewmiles site - http://members.shaw.ca/fewmiles/oneworld/cirpac.html .

As for prices, Bestflights.com.au has some listed at http://www.bestflights.com.au/cgi-bi...indetails=3007

Hopefully that helps give some guidance on which will be the better option for you (and I look forward to hearing any results you have in regards to confirming routings)

You could also route MEX-SCL-GRU on LanChile.. if flying Biz/First class then LanChile blows away AA in service.

So is that routing legal for the Circle Pacific fare? I got the impression that you could only backtrack between SCL and EZE, other backtracks in South America weren't permitted (having to get back through to SYD from SCL). From the comments I've read the Lan Chile option certainly sounds better than American Airlines, apart from the MRTC if I'm up the back.

I'll keep that option in mind if I take the RTW ticket instead though, certainly sounds more pleasant than a transit in Miami!

Thanks for the information. The BestFlights prices seem good value. Now the fun part of putting something together and seeing if someone will accept and ticket it. I'll keep you posted!

My impression from reading the BestFlights site is that this is one of the shorter Circle Pacific fares, not the 29000 mile one which is the only one which can be used to go the S America (see rules extract above).

There are two other fares, allowing maximum mileages of 22000 and 26000.

From HKG the CX published retail prices are:

22Y: 20180 22J: 33740 22F: 48180
26Y: 24620 26J: 41160 26F: 58780
29Y: 26240 29J: 43860 29F: 62630

At current interbank rate, that makes the 29Y bought in HKG AUD5839, and the 22Y is AUD4490 (compared to whatever BestFlights is offering being AUD2749).

Thus proving the point that HKG is a stunningly expensive place to buy air tickets.

Christep, does the OneWorld CirclePacific fare have milage limitations? I was aware of the surcharge for South American travel, but didn't realise there was a milage restriction too (I thought it was just the Star Alliance Circle fare that was miles limited). The only restriction I thought was the travel in a single direction (clockwise or counter-clockwise).

Are you able to get your hands on a copy of the fare rules for the tickets Cathay Pacific are selling for their CirclePacific fare (though looking at the price they charge I don't think I'll be clamouring to book it through them!).

Here you go - what follows is a simple copy/paste - apologies for some less than perfect formatting but the meaning should be clear (fare rule 7889 by the way):


Application - First/Business/Economy class circle trip travel via CX/AA/QF/BA/AY/LA/LP/XL.

Note flights on XL valid on/after 16DEC02.

Between - Points in Area 1 and Area 3, via the North/Central Pacific in one direction and via South Pacific in the other direction for travel originating and terminating in:

Australia
New Zealand
Hong Kong
USA
South America
Canada
Thailand
Korea
Malaysia
Singapore
Philippines
Taiwan
Mexico
Japan
Indonesia
Note:

These fares only apply if purchased prior to departure.

Baggage regulations

The piece system applies to passengers travelling on a ONEWORLD circle pacific fare.

Other conditions on services where first or business class is not offered, paxs paying the first or business class fare will travel in business class or economy class without compensation.

For AA services within/between the USA and Canada, where no business class is offered, business class paxs may book and travel in first class, subject to availability.

Fares:

For travel originating in:

Hong Kong - HKD

-CIR22- -
-CIR26-
-CIR29-

First
48180
58780
62630

Business
33740
41160
43860

Economy
20180
24620
26240

If interested for fare originating in:

Australia/New Zealand/USA/Mexico
Canada/Indonesia/Japan/Korea/Malaysia
Philippines/Taiwan/Thailand
Singapore/South America
- Please contact our fare desk at Fax 25245363 or Tel 27475880.

4.

Flight application/routings - The total journey must not exceed a MPM of:

Fare basis:

ACIR22/DCIR22/MCIR22 - 22000

ACIR26/DCIR26/MCIR26 - 26000

ACIR29/DCIR29/MCIR29 - 29000

Note: Surcharge tables are not permitted.

Travel must be on the services of CX/AA/QF/BA/LA/LP/XL/AY and their affiliates only, travelling via the N/C Pacific in one direction and the S. Pacific in the other direction or V.V.. only one N/C Pacific crosssing and one S.W.Pacific crossing permitted.
Travel originating in or including South America is only permitted on -CIR29SA Fares. Travel must be via the N/C Pacific in one direction and via Chile to/from the S.W. Pacific using services of QF/LA in the other.
- E.g. SLC/PPT surface AKL/SYD or SCL/AKL/SYD-.

Travel via the Caribbean and Central America is not permitted on any fare.
Travel on any QF/AA/CX/BA/LA/LP/XL/AY codeshare service operated by CX/AA/QF/BA/LA/LP/XL/AY is permitted.
Other codeshare services not permitted.

Exception 1 - Travel not permitted on CX flights between Hong Kong and Vitenam.

Exception 2: Any QF flight numbers within the flight range of 1-299 are permitted

Travel permitted on the following airlines which are affiliated ONEWORLD.

American Airlines-American Eagle including flts operated by executive AIR/TWA/AMERICAN Conneciton - Including flights operated by Chautauqua/Trans States/and corporate airlines.

Lan Peru Express and effective 16DEC02, Lan ecuador Qantas-Qantaslink operated by Impulse, National Jet Systems, Eastern Australia, Southern Australia, Sunstate Airlines;

Jetconnect and Awops flights operated for Qantas. All flights must have QF Designators.

Travel may originate at any point for which fares are published and must terminate at the same point, or an intermediate point in the country of origin. In no event may travel continue beyond the original point of origin.
Exception:

ORIG-DEST surf segment premitted between LAX and YVR.
ORIG-DEST surf segment permitted between HKG AND CHINA.
Travel is not permitted via countries west of Thailand.
Surface trvl and use of other carriers btwn intermediate points along the circle which are not operated by CX/AA/QF/BA/LA/LP/XL/AY is permitted at the passengers expense and must be ticketed separately. Mileage must be uncluded in the MPM calculation.
Travel via point of orgin not permitted
5.

Reservation and ticketing

Deadline:
First international sector: 7 Days
Subsequent sectors: Any time subject to availability
B. Booking class codes:

Via QF:
First:
DOM AU- D Class
All other A Class
Business D Class
Economy M Class

Via AA/CX/BA/
First: A Class
Via LA/LP/AY/XL
Business: D Class
Economy: M Class

Note:

When the class of SVC for the fare is not offered book in the next lower class of SVC using the Bkg classes above.

6.

Minimum stay

First and Business class:
5 Days counting from the day after departure of the first international sector to the earliest day return travel may commence from the last stopover point outside the country of origin.

Economy Class:
10 days counting from the day after departure of the first international sector to the earliest day return travel may commence from the last stopover point outside the country of origin.

7.

Maximum Stay - 6 Months

8.

Permitted stopovers

Free: Four for 22000 Miles
Five for 26000 Miles
Six for 29000 Miles

Notes:
I. Only one stopover permitted at any point.

II. A Maximum of one stopover in country of origin

III. A Maximum of two free stopovers per region
- S.W.Pacific / Asia / N.America / S.America-

IV. Where a paxdisembarks at one point and Re-embarke at a subsequent point enroute, the points count as a single stopover..

Additional: Permitted at an additional charge per stopover of USD75.00
Notes:

I. Addtnal Stpvrs may not be purchased in country of origin

II. Addtnal Stpvrs restricited to two stopovers per region

III. Child /Infant discount not applicable

9.

Transfers/Routings

Unlimited Trsfs permitted between CX/AA/QF/BA/LA/LP/XL/AY not more than three transfers at any one city permitted only one international departure and arrival in the country of origin permitted

10.

Permitted combinations - Not permitted

15.

Sales restricitons - Tickets must be issued on the stock of QF/AA/CX/BA/LA/LP/XL/AY. When travel originates in a country for which a specific local currency fares is published and the ticket is sold in another country, the fare will be that published for the country origin converted to the currency of the country of sale at the bank selling rate. The resultant fare must not be lower than from the country of sale.

16.

Voluntary charges/Rerouting/Penalties

Rebooking/Rerouting
prior to departure
Before deadline: Rebooking/rerouting permitted
After deadline: First Intl and preceding sector cannot be changed, subsequent sctrs may be changed
- Apply provisions shown in subparagraph -B- Below.

After departure:
Rbkg permitted: such transaction must be made not later than the day of the flight being changed.
Rerouting requiring reissue of Flt Cpns permitted at a charge of USD 100 each converted into local currency at the bankers rate.
-Discounts for childen/Infants not applicable-

At any time: The Non-Refundable amount may be used as credit towards payment of any full mileage or ONEWORLD/GLOBAL explorer fare providing those conditions are met.

Note: At all times the original non-ref amount remains non-refundable, the new ticket and any subsequent reissues must be annotated -NONREF/APEX-.


[This message has been edited by christep (edited 01-09-2003).]

Thanks for the rules there Christep, seems as though they've tightened up the fare unfortunately, makes it a little less appealing. As for the pricings in Australia, I managed to follow up on it over here and the rates I got quoted for the various ranges were:

22Y: $2949
26Y: $3599
29Y: $4229
(agreed, certainly better value than Hong Kong)

So it's definitely looking like if I'm doing the South American option that the 5 continent OneWorld Explorer wins out, even if I end up squandering the European leg of it - it's only $3159 and a whole lot more flexible for routing. Thanks once again for all the assistance!

Circle Pacific in Business via SCL just quoted by QF as a bit over $9100 (AUD) plus tax. Seems the prices have moved just a tad after BestFlights showed it as less than $6000 (AUD)!