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SWISS will not join oneworld (yet)

SWISS will not join oneworld (yet)

Old Mar 29, 02, 4:14 am
  #16  
 
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BA/QF do not dominate UK-AUS. SQ, CX, MH, TG and others are very large participants in the market. SQ derives 25% of its revenue from the "Kangaroo Route".

BA/Swiss would also be markedly different to BA/AY - Finnair is not really a choice to go US-Western Europe with. Swiss would definitely be though. Therefore one could conclude BA should be okay with AY but less so about Swiss.

I'm not suprised. BA is by far the senior oneworld airline in Europe (greater than AY, IB and EI together IMHO). It has far less bargaining power with Swiss involved.
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Old Mar 29, 02, 5:21 am
  #17  
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As stated, BA and QF have a monopoly of the direct UK-Australia market. Other airlines are of course indirect.

Last time I checked, BA and AY had a monopoly of non-stop flights between the UK and Finland. Last time I checked, BA and IB had a monopoly of flights between LHR and Spain. While I don't check the position on a daily basis, I guess the situation is not wildly different now.

BA and LX will have the monopoly on most UK-Switzerland routes and apparently BA are objecting to SWISS joining OW, yet that doesn't seem to be a problem with the other airlines I mentioned.
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Old Mar 29, 02, 8:48 am
  #18  
 
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Roger:
BA and LX will have the monopoly on most UK-Switzerland routes...</font>
Both from their Geneva hub and from Zurich, easyJet is - now more than ever - a serious competitor on the Switzerland-London route as well as on direct flights to other UK airports ex Geneva.



------------------
airOli, the Swiss Air Line.
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Old Mar 29, 02, 9:36 am
  #19  
 
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USAFAN: Well Swiss have this week announced their intention to join OneWorld. They have not announced the joining date however.

Do I get half-a-point for that.

I think the Swiss sales teams were playing with symantics by saying a deal would be announced this week, when in reality only the intention of a deal was announced this week.

He says back-tracking quickly....


Nick
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Old Mar 29, 02, 8:33 pm
  #20  
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Only SWISS has an inflight product that rivals BA's. other European OW airlines currently are not known for their inflight services, or their international routes.
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Old Mar 30, 02, 9:10 am
  #21  
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Guy,

You have spent too many years in Asia. SR went down the toilet in service terms in recent years and was just south of Turkish Airlines in terms of service.

No Alliance wants Swiss. They have basically announced the same cooperation deal that SR had and Star and Skyteam do not want them either. They are F****D.
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Old Mar 30, 02, 10:43 am
  #22  
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Actually I took just last week... and I am still amazed at the quality of service they have. Imagine a hot beverage, croissant service for a 30 minute ZRH-GVA flight which is considered domestic.

A good many of my Swiss friends seem to all hate SR, but I have had no problems with them. Sad to see SR go... well, maybe LX will do better.
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Old Apr 1, 02, 1:59 am
  #23  
 
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by hfly:


No Alliance wants Swiss. They have basically announced the same cooperation deal that SR had and Star and Skyteam do not want them either.
</font>
Can't blame them. Who knows if the government will bail Swiss out in the future? Industry consolidation will happen eventually.

[This message has been edited by bkong (edited 04-01-2002).]
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Old Apr 1, 02, 7:49 am
  #24  
 
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Roger:
As stated, BA and QF have a monopoly of the direct UK-Australia market. Other airlines are of course indirect.

Last time I checked, BA and AY had a monopoly of non-stop flights between the UK and Finland. Last time I checked, BA and IB had a monopoly of flights between LHR and Spain. While I don't check the position on a daily basis, I guess the situation is not wildly different now.

BA and LX will have the monopoly on most UK-Switzerland routes and apparently BA are objecting to SWISS joining OW, yet that doesn't seem to be a problem with the other airlines I mentioned.
</font>
QF and BA do offer the convenience of one flight number to AUstralia - but who cares ? They have to stop somewhere unless you know more than us and they have some super jet with a range of 11000 miles !! It is just as convenient to take any number of airlines ! You can also take the United into account - I know a number of epople who prefer to fly via the US instead of Asia ...

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Old Apr 2, 02, 5:50 am
  #25  
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As indeed I have done, Ozzie. What's your problem?

The facts I produced are undeniable.
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Old Apr 3, 02, 6:17 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Guy Betsy:

A good many of my Swiss friends seem to all hate SR, but I have had no problems with them. Sad to see SR go... well, maybe LX will do better.
</font>
I'm an LX regular. LX 848/9 (Now LX442/3) LCY-GVA is a once/twice a fortnight job for me.

27/3 LX848 - Nice Sandwiches / Pretzels, two drink services (inc. bubbly) and a C seat on an L ticket

1/4 LX442 - Tray, horrible cold cuts, one drink service, no bubbly and rolls. This is just 1999's food service - I actually prefer the newer sandwiches (The Pan e Olio thing was horrible).

Why throw away such a good product? If this is "premium" service; I'm going to go for "economy" service every time. EZY here I come!

Regards,
Alex

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Old Apr 3, 02, 6:56 am
  #27  
 
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Roger:
As indeed I have done, Ozzie. What's your problem?

The facts I produced are undeniable.
</font>
I really don't get the argument here... sorry. There are numerous arilines flying from UK to AUS - all indirect. It's not possible to fly direct as the plane must stop somewhere at least once. How is it that QF / BA have a monpoly on this market ? I know the Australian and the European competition authorities certainly wouldn't allow it even if it came close to a monopoly.

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Old Apr 3, 02, 1:34 pm
  #28  
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Ozzie, it's really very simple. BA and QF fly direct between the UK and Australia and are the only airlines to do so. This means they share a monopoly. (Also, BA own 25% of QF). And yes, the authorities accept the situation.

Direct does not mean nonstop.

Other airlines are not allowed to fly direct between the UK and Australia but carry passengers between them via intermediate points.

Without being sidetracked about who does/does not fly between the UK and Australia, the point I made is relevant to the topic, LX not joining OneWorld (yet).

BA/QF have a monopoly of the direct UK-Oz route, but this doesn't seem to trouble BA within OW. BA/IB have a monopoly of the nonstop LHR-Spain market, again not a problem for BA within OW (and BA own 9% of IB). BA/AY have a monopoly of the nonstop UK-Finland market, but again this is not a problem for BA within OW.

Yet little LX, which does not share a monopoly with BA on the UK-Swiss market (and so far as I can tell does not compete with BA on routes other than between the UK and Switzerland), appears to present problems for BA within OW.

Mind you, LX's influence is growing. Three of the four baggage carousels at LHR T2 were disgorging baggage from LX flights on Monday!
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Old Apr 3, 02, 1:48 pm
  #29  
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I think that the point that he is trying to make is that if you choose to fly SQ, TG, MH, etc. you may not be flying a DIRECT FLIGHT "as per your terms", but you in fact will be dealing with THE EXACT same numbers of stops and may possibly arrive earlier than on your DIRECT BA/QF flights. It would seem that the hair you are splitting refers to having a single flight number for both segments or not, having sat in the BA/QF F lounge on many occasions, I can assure you that many fliers spend time on the ground in Singapore on their DIRECT flights.
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Old Apr 3, 02, 2:43 pm
  #30  
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This is getting off topic.

If ozzie and hfly were to read my posts again, they would see that they relate to the topic - LX not joining OneWorld (yet) - and BA's apparent objections to LX in spite of monopoly-type practices with other OW members.

(I'm waiting for somebody to point out that in some cases, we have an oligopoly situation ...)

So when will LX join OW?

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