Routing Questions
Jul 26, 2016 | 1:48 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 295
Routing Questions
Hi
Looking at some options - I'd be very grateful for any comments/views on the following routing - not totally fixed on all locations yet but this is my outline - would it be valid ?
MPM - xDOH - LHR – South America (x2) – US(x4) – AKL – MEL – NRT - HKG - DEL - LHR - JNB
Also am I correct that as long as I fix my first segment and don't change it, I can do date/time changes with the rest of the segments without any penalty or risk of fare adjustment ?
Thanks
Looking at some options - I'd be very grateful for any comments/views on the following routing - not totally fixed on all locations yet but this is my outline - would it be valid ?
MPM - xDOH - LHR – South America (x2) – US(x4) – AKL – MEL – NRT - HKG - DEL - LHR - JNB
Also am I correct that as long as I fix my first segment and don't change it, I can do date/time changes with the rest of the segments without any penalty or risk of fare adjustment ?
Thanks
Jul 26, 2016 | 3:45 pm
#2
Moderator, OneWorld
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: SEA
Programs: RAA RIP; AA ExEXP
Posts: 12,556
Hi
Looking at some options - I'd be very grateful for any comments/views on the following routing - not totally fixed on all locations yet but this is my outline - would it be valid ?
MPM - xDOH - LHR – South America (x2) – US(x4) – AKL – MEL – NRT - HKG - DEL - LHR - JNB
Also am I correct that as long as I fix my first segment and don't change it, I can do date/time changes with the rest of the segments without any penalty or risk of fare adjustment ?
Thanks
Looking at some options - I'd be very grateful for any comments/views on the following routing - not totally fixed on all locations yet but this is my outline - would it be valid ?
MPM - xDOH - LHR – South America (x2) – US(x4) – AKL – MEL – NRT - HKG - DEL - LHR - JNB
Also am I correct that as long as I fix my first segment and don't change it, I can do date/time changes with the rest of the segments without any penalty or risk of fare adjustment ?
Thanks
...DEL-HKG-JNB would work and would probably be cheaper absent the BA fuel fines on LHR-JNB.
Jul 26, 2016 | 8:11 pm
#3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,692
Well, for what it's worth, I disagree with Gardyloo
My reading of the rule is that the phrase "travel to/from Europe in both directions" is concerning how you are getting from/to the continent of Africa via the continent of Europe-Middle East
And in your proposed itinerary at the beginning you get from Africa to Middle East (MPM-DOH) and at the end you get back to Africa from Europe (LHR-JNB)
So you are NOT travelling to/from Europe in both directions, and so the restriction regarding having South Africa/Mauritius in the itinerary does not apply
Unfortunately the on-line tool has still not been updated to reflect this new rule (which came in in April) so we cannot test Oneworld's interpretation of the rule.
My reading of the rule is that the phrase "travel to/from Europe in both directions" is concerning how you are getting from/to the continent of Africa via the continent of Europe-Middle East
And in your proposed itinerary at the beginning you get from Africa to Middle East (MPM-DOH) and at the end you get back to Africa from Europe (LHR-JNB)
So you are NOT travelling to/from Europe in both directions, and so the restriction regarding having South Africa/Mauritius in the itinerary does not apply
Unfortunately the on-line tool has still not been updated to reflect this new rule (which came in in April) so we cannot test Oneworld's interpretation of the rule.
Jul 26, 2016 | 8:42 pm
#4
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 196
HI
I've been told categorically by AA RTW desk that I'm not able to fly any sector between Middle East and Europe if I start in Africa
I was planning to do MPM-DOH-LHR at the start of my AONE5 have been refused on the grounds of the rule
*segments between Europe and Middle East are not permitted if travel includes Africa and the itinerary utilises
the backtracking provisions in Para 4(e) 3.1.3.or 3.2.3.
Even though there are no long 3.1.3. or 3.2.3. on the Rule sheet
I told them the online booking tool allows it but they are adamant ...
HELP!!
Any thoughts/suggestions etc
Thanks
I've been told categorically by AA RTW desk that I'm not able to fly any sector between Middle East and Europe if I start in Africa
I was planning to do MPM-DOH-LHR at the start of my AONE5 have been refused on the grounds of the rule
*segments between Europe and Middle East are not permitted if travel includes Africa and the itinerary utilises
the backtracking provisions in Para 4(e) 3.1.3.or 3.2.3.
Even though there are no long 3.1.3. or 3.2.3. on the Rule sheet
I told them the online booking tool allows it but they are adamant ...
HELP!!
Any thoughts/suggestions etc
Thanks
Jul 26, 2016 | 9:05 pm
#5
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,692
HI
I've been told categorically by AA RTW desk that I'm not able to fly any sector between Middle East and Europe if I start in Africa
I was planning to do MPM-DOH-LHR at the start of my AONE5 have been refused on the grounds of the rule
*segments between Europe and Middle East are not permitted if travel includes Africa and the itinerary utilises
the backtracking provisions in Para 4(e) 3.1.3.or 3.2.3.
Even though there are no long 3.1.3. or 3.2.3. on the Rule sheet
I told them the online booking tool allows it but they are adamant ...
HELP!!
Any thoughts/suggestions etc
Thanks
I've been told categorically by AA RTW desk that I'm not able to fly any sector between Middle East and Europe if I start in Africa
I was planning to do MPM-DOH-LHR at the start of my AONE5 have been refused on the grounds of the rule
*segments between Europe and Middle East are not permitted if travel includes Africa and the itinerary utilises
the backtracking provisions in Para 4(e) 3.1.3.or 3.2.3.
Even though there are no long 3.1.3. or 3.2.3. on the Rule sheet
I told them the online booking tool allows it but they are adamant ...
HELP!!
Any thoughts/suggestions etc
Thanks
Does the RTW desk agree with you that your itinerary is valid?
My suggestions:
- try booking with another airline - BA or QF if you have either of them on your itinerary (BA especially as they have been 'educated' on this - by me
) - ask if you can send an email to the AA Fares Section giving your opinion - this worked for me with BA last year (which is how I 'educated' them - see post #91 in the thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onewo...t-done5-3.html). If you go this route I can pm you the email I sent BA last year
- don't back track through Europe/Middle East - end your itinerary with either SYD-JNB or HKG-JNB
Jul 26, 2016 | 9:27 pm
#6
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 196
HI
Yes it was the AA RTW Desk that have told me and quoted that rule - which is still on the Rule Sheet I believe and at face value does seem to exclude MPM DOH LHR etc
I want to do MPM-DOH-LHR/SYD-WLG-SYD-SIN-HKG-ORD-BUF-PHL-BDA-JFK-YVR-LHRxJNB
They've told me I have to MPM DOH SYD etc and can stopover in LHR at the end of the trip
OR I can MPM DOH and stopover there and transit London at the end ...
Yes it was the AA RTW Desk that have told me and quoted that rule - which is still on the Rule Sheet I believe and at face value does seem to exclude MPM DOH LHR etc
I want to do MPM-DOH-LHR/SYD-WLG-SYD-SIN-HKG-ORD-BUF-PHL-BDA-JFK-YVR-LHRxJNB
They've told me I have to MPM DOH SYD etc and can stopover in LHR at the end of the trip
OR I can MPM DOH and stopover there and transit London at the end ...
Jul 27, 2016 | 7:54 am
#7
Moderator, OneWorld
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: SEA
Programs: RAA RIP; AA ExEXP
Posts: 12,556
Well, for what it's worth, I disagree with Gardyloo
My reading of the rule is that the phrase "travel to/from Europe in both directions" is concerning how you are getting from/to the continent of Africa via the continent of Europe-Middle East
And in your proposed itinerary at the beginning you get from Africa to Middle East (MPM-DOH) and at the end you get back to Africa from Europe (LHR-JNB)
My reading of the rule is that the phrase "travel to/from Europe in both directions" is concerning how you are getting from/to the continent of Africa via the continent of Europe-Middle East
And in your proposed itinerary at the beginning you get from Africa to Middle East (MPM-DOH) and at the end you get back to Africa from Europe (LHR-JNB)
Jul 27, 2016 | 9:09 am
#8
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: country Western Australia
Programs: QF WP(LTS) - AA LTG(1MM)
Posts: 2,858
Fascinated by the exMPM routings and a need to be in the states in 2017 I have dreamed up the following:
MPM-DOH-NRT-KUL-KTM-KUL-HKG-ORD-PHX-STL-PHL-DFW-LAX-LHR-HEL-MAD-JNB
Which should avoid the issues of a Middle East - Europe transit. Still leaves the problem of whether I want both CX and QF Gold or just QF Platinum...
Happy wandering
Fred
Any issues other than I could have found a few more miles?
MPM-DOH-NRT-KUL-KTM-KUL-HKG-ORD-PHX-STL-PHL-DFW-LAX-LHR-HEL-MAD-JNB
Which should avoid the issues of a Middle East - Europe transit. Still leaves the problem of whether I want both CX and QF Gold or just QF Platinum...
Happy wandering
Fred
Any issues other than I could have found a few more miles?
Jul 27, 2016 | 9:33 am
#9
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,692
Looks valid to me Fred
KA flies KTM-HKG which would save you a segment to use elsewhere
And of course you will know that your visit to DOH must be a "transfer without stopover"
KA flies KTM-HKG which would save you a segment to use elsewhere
And of course you will know that your visit to DOH must be a "transfer without stopover"
Jul 27, 2016 | 9:42 am
#10
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,692
Well, for what it's worth, I disagree with Gardyloo
My reading of the rule is that the phrase "travel to/from Europe in both directions" is concerning how you are getting from/to the continent of Africa via the continent of Europe-Middle East
And in your proposed itinerary at the beginning you get from Africa to Middle East (MPM-DOH) and at the end you get back to Africa from Europe (LHR-JNB)
So you are NOT travelling to/from Europe in both directions, and so the restriction regarding having South Africa/Mauritius in the itinerary does not apply
Unfortunately the on-line tool has still not been updated to reflect this new rule (which came in in April) so we cannot test Oneworld's interpretation of the rule.
My reading of the rule is that the phrase "travel to/from Europe in both directions" is concerning how you are getting from/to the continent of Africa via the continent of Europe-Middle East
And in your proposed itinerary at the beginning you get from Africa to Middle East (MPM-DOH) and at the end you get back to Africa from Europe (LHR-JNB)
So you are NOT travelling to/from Europe in both directions, and so the restriction regarding having South Africa/Mauritius in the itinerary does not apply
Unfortunately the on-line tool has still not been updated to reflect this new rule (which came in in April) so we cannot test Oneworld's interpretation of the rule.
As you said it's like parsing the Talmud - but to me the words are clearly concerned with the single flight from Africa and the single flight back to Africa, not other flights.
But since the on-line tool doesn't handle the new rule at all, there is no guidance as to which interpretation is correct. I note that according those that have interacted with the AA RTW desk, AA is not saying that "travel to/from Europe means "routing via Europe" - instead AA is referring to the now non-existent clauses that were in the superseded rule.
Jul 27, 2016 | 11:56 am
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 295
Thanks
Jul 27, 2016 | 12:08 pm
#12
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,692
Well you certainly cannot have stopovers in LHR (or anywhere else in the continent) both at the beginning and then at the end. The rule clearly says that one visit to Europe/Middle East must be a transfer without stopover - no ambiguity there at least.
Jul 27, 2016 | 4:53 pm
#14
Moderator, OneWorld
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: SEA
Programs: RAA RIP; AA ExEXP
Posts: 12,556
Jul 27, 2016 | 6:55 pm
#15
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: country Western Australia
Programs: QF WP(LTS) - AA LTG(1MM)
Posts: 2,858
Now to pick a starting date...
Happy wandering
Fred