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is this a valid routing ex JNB

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Old Nov 30, 2012 | 12:37 am
  #1  
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is this a valid routing ex JNB

hi
i'm new to routings ex SA and having read the OW Rules I thought that this routing was possible .... I've given the bare bones - the area of contention is at the end

JNB-HKG-SYD-WLG-SYD-HKG-JFK-LAX-LHRxNBO-LHR-JNB

The online booking tool doesn't let me do the final flights via LHR - says only allowed one intercontinental arrival and departure
I thought that this routing was possible as long as one of the 2 LHR visits was transit only
Or have I not understood the rules correctly

Thanks!
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Old Nov 30, 2012 | 1:04 am
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Originally Posted by pianoperson
hi
i'm new to routings ex SA and having read the OW Rules I thought that this routing was possible .... I've given the bare bones - the area of contention is at the end

JNB-HKG-SYD-WLG-SYD-HKG-JFK-LAX-LHRxNBO-LHR-JNB

The online booking tool doesn't let me do the final flights via LHR - says only allowed one intercontinental arrival and departure
I thought that this routing was possible as long as one of the 2 LHR visits was transit only
Or have I not understood the rules correctly

Thanks!
You are not understanding all the rules correctly

You are wanting to visit Africa too many times
- start there (JNB)
- make a visit to NBO from Europe and return to Europe
- end there (back to JNB)
You cannot do that - the general rule is:
Only one intercontinental departure and one intercontinental arrival permitted in each continent
The tool does have a bug regarding the allowed transit of Europe
I reported this in the tool bugs thread a short time ago
The rule the tool should allow is:
For travel to/from or via Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya and Uganda two permitted in Europe when one is a transfer without stopover between Ghana/Nigeria/Kenya/Uganda and another continent.
Your segments LAX-LHR-NBO are OK - the rule does not come into play
The tool gives the error message when you are returning to Europe from NBO - which is the bug. But in any case your further segments NBO-LHR-JNB are not allowed because (i) you're leaving and arriving back into Africa a second time and (ii) the transit is not to another continent as required by the rules - it is back to Africa

Last edited by pandaperth; Nov 30, 2012 at 1:18 am Reason: messy thinking regarding the European transit rule
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Old Nov 30, 2012 | 1:26 am
  #3  
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hi
thanks for that
i can see it clearly now - the crucial bit - another continent !
cheers
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Old Nov 30, 2012 | 5:12 pm
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Originally Posted by pianoperson
hi
thanks for that
i can see it clearly now - the crucial bit - another continent !
cheers
It COULD mean a continent other than Europe.
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Old Nov 30, 2012 | 9:50 pm
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Originally Posted by pianoperson
hi
i'm new to routings ex SA and having read the OW Rules I thought that this routing was possible .... I've given the bare bones - the area of contention is at the end

JNB-HKG-SYD-WLG-SYD-HKG-JFK-LAX-LHRxNBO-LHR-JNB
You also can't visit Asia twice either!!! Suggest ... HKG-SYD-WLG-SYD-JFK ...
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Old Dec 1, 2012 | 2:17 am
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Originally Posted by deconz
You also can't visit Asia twice either!!! Suggest ... HKG-SYD-WLG-SYD-JFK ...
Yes s/he can.
The allowed exception is:
Two permitted in Asia when one is a transfer without stopover or on direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe
(and so in the proposed itinerary, one of the HKG visits needs to have a little 'x' before it)

See also the recent discussion on the exception, in this thread
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Old Dec 1, 2012 | 6:40 pm
  #7  
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Originally Posted by pandaperth
Yes s/he can. The allowed exception is:
Two permitted in Asia when one is a transfer without stopover or on direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe
You've quoted the rule accurately, Pandaperth, but where's the service between SWP and Europe?

JNB-HKG-SYD-WLG-SYD-HKG-JFK-LAX-LHRxNBO-LHR-JNB
First pass through HKG is between Africa and SWP; second is between SWP and North America.
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Old Dec 1, 2012 | 7:36 pm
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Originally Posted by Dr. HFH
You've quoted the rule accurately, Pandaperth, but where's the service between SWP and Europe?



First pass through HKG is between Africa and SWP; second is between SWP and North America.
LOL, here we go again...

Here is a copy of part of the post I made in the thread I referred to in my post above
Originally Posted by pandaperth
From time to time the interpretation of this exception by airlines has flip-flopped between:
  1. Two permitted in Asia when one is
    EITHER a transfer without stopover between the Southwest Pacific and any other continent
    OR on direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe
  2. Two permitted in Asia when one is
    EITHER a transfer without stopover between the Southwest Pacific and Europe
    OR on direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe.
I reported that I had successfully ticketed with AA an itinerary where the transfer without stopover was between Nth America and SWP; and the OP of that other thread later reported that CX has ticketed her/his itinerary where the transfer is between Africa and SWP.

YMMV I guess!
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Old Dec 1, 2012 | 8:19 pm
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Originally Posted by pandaperth
I reported that I had successfully ticketed with AA an itinerary where the transfer without stopover was between Nth America and SWP; and the OP of that other thread later reported that CX has ticketed her/his itinerary where the transfer is between Africa and SWP.

YMMV I guess!
Indeed!! Back when cheapest point of purchase was MRU, I bought several AONE4s which started at MRU and ended at JNB/CPT or vice versa. (Under the interpretation of the rules used by BA at MRU, you couldn't start and end at the same point. If you started at MRU, you could end at JNB or CPT. Start at JNB/CPT and you could end at MRU.) All included two transits of LHR, clearly not allowed by the rules.

The official rule, 4(e)2, says:

2. Two permitted in Asia when one is a transfer without stopover or on direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe.
This is the only rule which permits two stops in Asia in transit to SWP, although, as Pandaperth says, and always holds true in things like this, YMMV.
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Old Dec 2, 2012 | 6:00 pm
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Originally Posted by Dr. HFH

...Back when cheapest point of purchase was MRU, I bought several AONE4s which started at MRU and ended at JNB/CPT or vice versa. (Under the interpretation of the rules used by BA at MRU, you couldn't start and end at the same point. If you started at MRU, you could end at JNB or CPT. Start at JNB/CPT and you could end at MRU.) All included two transits of LHR, clearly not allowed by the rules.

...
Around 2007 I bought several rtw tickets from BA in Mauritius. I used to pick them up in person at the BA office (really a ticket agent) in Le Caudan shopping mall. All of them both started and ended in MRU, passing through JNB on the return.
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Old Dec 2, 2012 | 8:11 pm
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Why not, JNB-SYD-WLG-SYD-HKG-LHR-NBO-LHR-JNB? or the more adventurous JNB-SYD-WLG-HKG-NRT-JFK-LHR-NBO-LHR-JNB?
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Old Dec 2, 2012 | 8:58 pm
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Originally Posted by Yoshi212
Why not, JNB-SYD-WLG-SYD-HKG-LHR-NBO-LHR-JNB? or the more adventurous JNB-SYD-WLG-HKG-NRT-JFK-LHR-NBO-LHR-JNB?
JNB-SYD-WLG-SYD-HKG-LHR-NBO-LHR-JNB still has the problem of two African entries/exits when only one is allowed. Also it is no longer RTW (but is a *ONEWC4 instead).

JNB-SYD-WLG-HKG-NRT-JFK-LHR-NBO-LHR-JNB has the same problems wrt African entries/exits. No direct service WLG-HKG (though there is AKL-HKG). More adventurous?
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Old Dec 2, 2012 | 9:17 pm
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Originally Posted by pandaperth
More adventurous?
Just a few more stops and an actual RTW.
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Old Dec 2, 2012 | 11:10 pm
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Originally Posted by pianoperson
hi
i'm new to routings ex SA
Hi pianoperson,

Just a very minor quibble: "SA" can be ambiguous (the 'A' might be Africa, America, or even Asia). Since you posted your routing it's clear here of course.

Originally Posted by pandaperth
Yes s/he can.
The allowed exception is:
Two permitted in Asia when one is a transfer without stopover or on direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe
(and so in the proposed itinerary, one of the HKG visits needs to have a little 'x' before it)
Is the rule
Two permitted in Asia when (one is a transfer without stopover) or (on direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe[)
or
Two permitted in Asia when one is a (transfer without stopover or on direct single plane service) between the Southwest Pacific and Europe
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Old Dec 3, 2012 | 1:33 am
  #15  
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Originally Posted by anabolism
Is the rule
Two permitted in Asia when (one is a transfer without stopover) or (on direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe[)
or
Two permitted in Asia when one is a (transfer without stopover or on direct single plane service) between the Southwest Pacific and Europe
See post #8 above
and also the thread I linked to in post #6
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