Air Berlin to Join oneworld
Jul 27, 2010 | 7:30 pm
#46
Moderator: Asiana & Qantas Frequent Flyer
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: STR/SYD/SMF
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The integration process will be a challenge but I don't think AB is a "classical" LCC like Ryanair or easyJet. AB already works more or less like a network carrier and this may help in the integration process.
Some features:
- AB allows connections and checks your bags through
- AB has a frequent flyer program with other airline partners (S7 among others)
- AB has two classes of services (long-haul)
- AB uses main airports (e.g. FRA,TXL instead of Hahn or Schnfeld), most of which already have a OW lounge
- AB's IT is connected to the ESTA, API databases for US bound passengers
- you can buy AB ticket through consolidators and/or online agencies (e.g. ebookers, expedia.de, etc.)
- you should be able to buy AB tickets through TAs as well (I'm not sure though)
- AB has a limited hub-and-spoke model in TXL & DUS (you can for instance fly from ZRH via DUS to MIA, your bag is checked through, you get boarding passes for the DUS-MIA leg in ZRH, the check-in agent at ZRH enters your API details for the US and checks whether you are ESTA compliant, etc.)
AB is more like B6 in the US which offers you connecting flights, booking via online agencies such as Expedia, etc. They are a low-fare network carrier.
Some features:
- AB allows connections and checks your bags through
- AB has a frequent flyer program with other airline partners (S7 among others)
- AB has two classes of services (long-haul)
- AB uses main airports (e.g. FRA,TXL instead of Hahn or Schnfeld), most of which already have a OW lounge
- AB's IT is connected to the ESTA, API databases for US bound passengers
- you can buy AB ticket through consolidators and/or online agencies (e.g. ebookers, expedia.de, etc.)
- you should be able to buy AB tickets through TAs as well (I'm not sure though)
- AB has a limited hub-and-spoke model in TXL & DUS (you can for instance fly from ZRH via DUS to MIA, your bag is checked through, you get boarding passes for the DUS-MIA leg in ZRH, the check-in agent at ZRH enters your API details for the US and checks whether you are ESTA compliant, etc.)
AB is more like B6 in the US which offers you connecting flights, booking via online agencies such as Expedia, etc. They are a low-fare network carrier.
I guess they want:
1>, OW Frequent flyers who may purchase its Business class ticket to support their revunue on long haul routes
2>, OW's network so AB can sell ticket in Germany to its members to anywhere in the world
3>, OW's structure that will make AB more competitive
4>, OW's leisure travelers who will use AB's European network to travel within EU. AB will have the potential to sell majority of the Europe Pass sectors for its frequency and network.
5>, OW's member airlines to work together with AB to make DUS a better hub with a future Berlin hub in the new Berlin airport which due to open in 2012. So when AB fully integrated into OW (possibly late 2011 early 2012) OW will have the new Berlin BBL airport (code BER) as one hub
6>, OW's international routes into Frankfurt so AB could benefits from the codeshare out of FRA.
1>, OW Frequent flyers who may purchase its Business class ticket to support their revunue on long haul routes
2>, OW's network so AB can sell ticket in Germany to its members to anywhere in the world
3>, OW's structure that will make AB more competitive
4>, OW's leisure travelers who will use AB's European network to travel within EU. AB will have the potential to sell majority of the Europe Pass sectors for its frequency and network.
5>, OW's member airlines to work together with AB to make DUS a better hub with a future Berlin hub in the new Berlin airport which due to open in 2012. So when AB fully integrated into OW (possibly late 2011 early 2012) OW will have the new Berlin BBL airport (code BER) as one hub
6>, OW's international routes into Frankfurt so AB could benefits from the codeshare out of FRA.
AB has a lot of point to point connections outside Germany and with their hub in Palma is a nice option for that corner of the Mediterranean as well.
Jul 28, 2010 | 1:47 am
#47
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SYD
Programs: |QF LTG|DL Gold|
Posts: 1,784
The hope is that joining OW is another step in AB's evolution as a carrier and this speeds those connections. I know I would welcome ANY opportunity to get to European destinations without having to fly all the way to LHR and then back-track!
Jul 28, 2010 | 2:05 am
#48
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Capetown
Programs: Marriott LT Plat, IHG and Hilton Diamond, LH LT SEN, QR Platinum. BA Silver (going down further)
Posts: 10,235
posts like yours are so unhinged and full of rubbish that seems to me AB accession to OW has irked many die hard supporters of the yellow-and-blue cancer 
. Perhaps they were expecting emperor Mayrhuber to step in and snap in a moment this last fastidious home mosquito, although with the current disastrous situation of German banking system it is unclear where LH would get the easy cash they're used to. As for airline profitability, unlike you I am not sure if LH would be one of those without the continuous unwavering support of government, regulators (domestic and EU) and financial establishment.
Potentially unstable fellow travelers. One more reason for me to further avoid travel with LH.
. Perhaps they were expecting emperor Mayrhuber to step in and snap in a moment this last fastidious home mosquito, although with the current disastrous situation of German banking system it is unclear where LH would get the easy cash they're used to. As for airline profitability, unlike you I am not sure if LH would be one of those without the continuous unwavering support of government, regulators (domestic and EU) and financial establishment.Potentially unstable fellow travelers. One more reason for me to further avoid travel with LH.
I do about 100 flight on AB, 100 flights on LH and 30 flights on BA a year and I am certainly a happy traveller with all of them (in the ranking of the names mentioned).
Jul 28, 2010 | 2:18 am
#49
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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So the global financial collapse for BA began in early 2007 when the share price went down dramatically?
Jul 28, 2010 | 2:44 am
#50
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Asia/Europe
Programs: CX, OZ, MU (+AY, DL), Shangri-La, Hilton
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As far DUS, TXL/BBI and Germany in general are concerned, I do think Air Berlin brings OW airlines and passengers several big advantages:
- Better OW corporate products and sales/after-sales presence regarding corporate customers
- Of course other OW products such as RTW tickets get more interesting especially ex-Germany
- Better presence at German airports, from being able to check-in early to handling irregularities. This has been a major irritation so far, IMHO.
- Better ability to offer alternative OW connections in case of irregularities ex-Germany
etc.etc.
- Better OW corporate products and sales/after-sales presence regarding corporate customers
- Of course other OW products such as RTW tickets get more interesting especially ex-Germany
- Better presence at German airports, from being able to check-in early to handling irregularities. This has been a major irritation so far, IMHO.
- Better ability to offer alternative OW connections in case of irregularities ex-Germany
etc.etc.
Jul 28, 2010 | 2:44 am
#51
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Vienna
Programs: BAEC Gold, TK E+, LH Sen, Accor Plat, Base level: AF, AS, DL, Hilton, IHG
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Compare with the abundant growth of London and regional airports in the UK served by Emirates, Qatar, Ethihad...
Then we have the example of Emirates, amongst others, being forced to raise prices by the German Government because they were undercutting Lufthansa:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLJ44779920091119
Shuttle
Jul 28, 2010 | 3:36 am
#52
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 44
Jul 28, 2010 | 3:40 am
#53
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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The German government said in a letter seen by Reuters that it was illegal for non-EU airlines such as Emirates to undercut the prices of other carriers on routes from Germany to non-EU destinations, citing its international bilateral air transport agreements and European Parliament rules.
Jul 28, 2010 | 3:48 am
#54
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Asia/Europe
Programs: CX, OZ, MU (+AY, DL), Shangri-La, Hilton
Posts: 7,233
I think most if not all European legacy airlines would be glad to get rid of their shorthaul flights. Wasn't Lufthansa considering transferring European flights to Germanwings already a while ago? Not sure if some routes have actually had a low key takeover by GW?
Jul 28, 2010 | 4:14 am
#55
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I am pretty ignorant of AB since they don't serve my airport (LYS). And since LH does serve LYS (to FRA, MUC and DUS), all my trips to Germany are with LH or by train. If AB were to add LYS as a destination, I would certainly be interested!
Jul 28, 2010 | 5:14 am
#56
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What they actually do it to fly into PMI (i) from the Portugese and Spanish mainland and the other Balearic Ilses and (ii) from plenty of German major and regional airports and some European (AMS, BSL, GRZ, VIE, INN, CPH, SZG, ZRH) airports and offer quite convenient connections between these regions via PMI in some cases three times a day. It always looks quite impressive to have a fleet of 20 or so read AB birds in the PMI evening sun.
Jul 28, 2010 | 5:29 am
#57
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Vienna
Programs: BAEC Gold, TK E+, LH Sen, Accor Plat, Base level: AF, AS, DL, Hilton, IHG
Posts: 194
I am thrilled that OneWorld have become more 'proactive' in recruiting members from an ever diminishing pool and am similarly happy that the latest airline is Air Berlin. Hopefully this will enable BA to maintain a robust schedule to its existing German destinations.
However, this article relating the topic:
http://www.centreforaviation.com/new...n-europe/page1
also makes slightly depressing reading for any OneWorld fanboys/girls, as one could conclude that OW is not trying to get Aer Lingus, which is currently running a beauty parade amongst the alliances, back into OW.
One the other hand, I remember reading, not so many moons ago, OW did stating that it did not need more than 12 members and would stop recruiting after that - clearly a position that they have re-evaluated
However, this article relating the topic:
http://www.centreforaviation.com/new...n-europe/page1
also makes slightly depressing reading for any OneWorld fanboys/girls, as one could conclude that OW is not trying to get Aer Lingus, which is currently running a beauty parade amongst the alliances, back into OW.
One the other hand, I remember reading, not so many moons ago, OW did stating that it did not need more than 12 members and would stop recruiting after that - clearly a position that they have re-evaluated
Jul 29, 2010 | 4:29 am
#58
Join Date: Oct 2004
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AB/OW press conference announcing move can be watched here - http://www.airberlin.com/site/landin...eworld_EN.html
Jul 29, 2010 | 4:43 am
#59
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,337
What they actually do it to fly into PMI (i) from the Portugese and Spanish mainland and the other Balearic Ilses and (ii) from plenty of German major and regional airports and some European (AMS, BSL, GRZ, VIE, INN, CPH, SZG, ZRH) airports and offer quite convenient connections between these regions via PMI in some cases three times a day. It always looks quite impressive to have a fleet of 20 or so read AB birds in the PMI evening sun.
Jul 29, 2010 | 7:41 am
#60
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
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Posts: 8,156
And what they certainly need is a capable US addition. OW' AA is currently competing with *A's US, UA, CO and AC. The addition of AB brings OW back into the heart of Europe and this is certainly a move into the right direction, however they need a bit more to compete with giant LH.
Out of interest, is there a particular destination which you feel the OW network is unable to cater for?
Yes. Remember in 2007 there were lots of concerns about the system already before the big crash occurred later that year. BA was a very easy target due to it's known pension problem which at the end of the day is still the carrier's core issue to resolve. You still can't deny that it was highly profitable by European standards for a very long time, and arguably more so than even LH. BA's biggest mistake was not putting more money aside sooner to sure up the pension deficit as well as changing the pension itself to either remove benefits or push employees to put more money into the system.
Last edited by Traveloguy; Jul 29, 2010 at 7:47 am