vitira

I'm planning a lot of travel this spring and summer out of MSP and am wondering if anyone can share experiences regarding adding a leg to the end of a roundtrip in order to save money.

For example:

MSP-BOS-MSP on May 15-18 (I'm leaving out the one fare which is matching Sun Country): $488

MSP-BOS-MKE via MSP, on the same flights: $326

This is an extreme case of savings, which are usually in the $30-90 range, but which seem to be available on any major NW route (MSP-SEA, SFO, &c.). It can go through cities other than MKE, too, but MKE is often the best bet (using ITA and specifying to MKE or any city within 300 miles often finds weirder fares).

What I'd wind up doing, and what I've done, twice, is to take the first three legs, and then get off in Minneapolis and throw away the last leg. I know the airlines don't like this (at all) but since I am never throwing a leg mid-trip, my chances of getting stranded are minimal (unless, say, there were storms, and they tried to route me to MKE via DTW). The two times I have done this the only ramifications were the miles from the last segment not banking, but they didn't seem to care otherwise.

So my questions for the forum:

1. Has anyone else done this much?
2. Does anyone know if they care? And if they do, what the ramifications might be?
3. Should I worry about other (future) itineraries booked (some with the same/similar weird routings) if I am "caught"? Or do they only cancel flights on the same itinerary (say, if you skip a flight on the outbound)? I'll probably have a Europe trip (without these shenanigans) booked on NW/DL and wouldn't want to get that revoked.
4. Might they kill my WP/Delta account? I might hit 25k miles this year and wouldn't mind qualifying for elite.

To be clear, I see nothing wrong with this, and think that the airlines' policies regarding these types of tickets are beyond ludicrous. I'll gladly take them to small claims court if they try to hose me for a $1000 ticket change (and probably win) but I'd rather not put up with that. However, I do want to see if anyone else in the FT community has any experience with these types of fares. If there's a good chance they'll confiscate miles, it might be worth paying the extra few bucks for each flight. If they'll probably let it slide, I see no reason not to save a few bills this summer.

(For reference, there was a recent blog post at http://www.shoemoney.com/2008/10/17/...ur-air-travel/ of a guy doing this, including some mid-trip, a lot, and saving bundles and getting away with it.)

Thanks!

RobOnLI

I think you'll find you get a lot of different answers on this board.

The official answer is that this is illegal and NW will track it and potentially shut your WP account. If you do it once or twice a year and don't make it a habit, NW is highly unlikely to do anything about it. However, if you do it frequently (as you mention you'll be flying a lot in Spring/Summer), then NW is within their right to lock your WP account, revoke any status you have and zero out your WP balance. Are they likely to do this? That's anyone's guess and no one on here can give you a scientific answer.

My recommendation would be to not make a habit of it. If you're wanting to fly NW for these trips in hopes to earn/retain status then I would never add an extra leg just to cut down the cost if elite status is important to you.

-RM

MikeMpls

One other risk: Delta has a rather infamous department known as the Revenue Protection Unit (RPU), which in the past has been known to rebill people's credit cards for the fare differentials in such situtations. Protesting with the credit card company doesn't always work when the credit card company (e.g. AMEX ) is in bed with the airline. This was in the last Mullin/Borden years (up to 2003-4); I haven't heard of any recent occurences of this. The RPU today tends only to be heard from on EBay.

I'd say the risk today is slight, but you've been warned.

Regarding the OP's Shoemoney link:

He claims to have been doing this monthly for two years. He also claim that when he does it with United, they cancel the ticket but always reinstate it when he shows up mid-trip for the return. I'm a bit skeptical.

sam-i-am

What happens if you don't give your FF number for this particular trip? Will they get you by name only?

kcnwa

I too find this skeptical. In several hundred segments, I'm have 2 times where NW didn't think I was on a plane when I actually was (misread a BP). One time I noticed that the remainder of my itin was cancelled online. The second time I called and the PE line said it was a good thing as if you don't show up for a flight, they cancel the remainder.

So if you have to call and get it reinstated, you're raising a red flag all the time.

kcnwa

Also, I have on a couple occasions done FNT>DTW>DEST>DTW and if the FNT was delayed taken a taxi home. NW didn't seem to care, and I could always argue I did it due to their delayed flight.

That said, I wouldn't make regular practice out of it. As other stated, you will most likely get caught, if not today, maybe not tomorrow, but probably will eventually if you make it a habit.

indufan

I don't know that I would bet a lot of money on the "and probably win" part. Hidden city ticket is CLEARLY against the rules (for all of the airlines that I know about) and, and subject to a great amount of debate against the law.

MikeMpls

That's simply silly. They'd have to successfully argue that the all the garbage buried in the contracts of adhesion (aka the fare rules & contract of carriage) that nobody bothers to read are legally binding contracts. Even then it would only be a civil tort and not a criminal infraction.

It would be especially hard to show in court that reasonable person would understand such behavior to be illegal, especially give that the nation's largest domestic carrier expliticitly allows hidden city ticketing:

bocastephen

There is nothing 'illegal' about hidden city, back-to-back or any other ticketing practice the airlines like to call 'illegal'.

Having said that, if it violates their contract of carriage, you could lose your miles - but if earning awards is of no consequence, your risk is really limited to the loss of future tickets (the airline could cancel them and bar you). Unless the contract of carriage stipulates the right to rebill the correct airfare, any attempt to charge your form of payment is most likely winnable in small claims court, if it even gets that far.

As others pointed out, I'd be cautious about this practice if you want to maintain a relationship with NW. If you're flying a one-stop via MSP with no change of plane and no requirement to deplane, this could be done easily - but having to switch aircraft or reboard sets yourself up for trouble.

FWIW, my ex used to take a Delta flight from ATL-FLL with a stop in MIA. It was easier to pick them up in MIA and be half way home before the flight reached FLL, so they would deplane in MIA and skip the last 'segment'. There was never a problem with this, except on one flight, a Delta FA who knew they were going onwards to FLL tried to physically prevent them from deplaning - a little pushing and shoving ensued, but they got off. I believe this wasn't technically throw-away, but probably the opposite, as the ATL-MIA segment might have priced out higher than ATL-FLL.

indufan

This, by definition, makes it "illegal". Now, I assume that you had the view of word that I had for a long time. That illegal means against the law. It doesn't. It has a second meaning. "not sanctioned by official rules (as of a game)". A "double dribble" is illegal in basketball as is hidden ticketing in the context of airline rules.

Having said this, I don't think that it is against the law either BUT one could make a case for it. Don't try to expect me to try and argue that case since I don't really believe in it but I have seen much broader criminal cases...particularly in the US state of NY and CA.

I am not an attorney, I will leave it those people to interpret it.

MikeMpls

You've paid the lawful charge to get on the plane. However, it's a free country and you can get off anytime. If you're at a point in the trip where you can safely exit (e.g. between flights), you have every right to do so. You are not the airline's prisoner.

canndlewic

I agree. They may not like it. They may close your FF account. They may not let you book future travel, but they can't force you to do anything.

If you left a movie theater midway through the movie, the manager can't run after you and say you paid for the whole movie, since you only watched half, you have to pay an extra fee.

indufan

Unless you get an aggressive prosecutor who forces you to jail. Again, I am not saying that this should be the case, I am saying that it could be the case. Read the law of NY, it's open ended enough.

This isn't a good analogy. Movie theaters don't charge more for half of the movie.

tmcbride

I know someone who recently used OMA as a hidden city. It saved this guy about 400.00

MikeMpls

Simply absurd. Zero chance that it will happen. But sometimes its amazing to observe the extent to which the devoted will defend an airline's bad practices.