pbd456

As a newly NW Gold, I am really upset at this.
I was checking for a march booking from BTV to HKG.
NW is 200 dollars above UA and CO. it is true that I have status in NW, but I am not going to pay more than 200 for this!!!!

I am wondering if it is related to the application of delaying the start of DTW to PVG and PEK. NW claimed that the bookings to Asia has been down and they are requesting to postpone the start date of the route for one year. Therefore, they keep the price high to lower the bookings.

Another friends of mine is booking a April/May trip to US from PVG. They are only selling Q class ticket! It costs 1000 more than other airlines. I think NW is turning away business.

Bagels

Sorry, the sky isn't falling. Here's DL-NW's summer transpacific schedule that's currently loaded into the system:

(*note that all flights operate daily unless otherwise stated)
JFK-NRT (777)
ATL-NRT (4xwkly 777, 744)
ATL-ICN (4xwkly 777)
ATL-PVG (4xwkly 777)
DTW-NRT (744, 744)
DTW-NGO-MNL (5xwkly 744)
DTW-PVG (4xwkly 744)
MSP-NRT (744)
SLC-NRT (5xwkly 332)
SEA-NRT (332)
PDX-NRT (763)
SFO-NRT (332)
LAX-NRT (744)
HNL-NRT (333, 744)
HNL-KIX (333)

GUM-NRT (757, 763)
GUM-KIX (757)
SPN-NRT (333) - schedule still shows additional 757 outbound flight only/likely to be removed in the future
SPN-NGO (757)

NRT-KIX (757)
NRT-NGO (757)
NRT-ICN (757)
NRT-PUS (757)
NRT-BKK (757)
NRT-SGN (757)
NRT-TPE (757)
NRT-PEK (332)
NRT-PVG (332)
NRT-SIN (332)
NRT-HKG (333)
NRT-MNL (744)

BearX220

Me too. FWIW, a firm WBC booking ICN-NRT for July 14, originally A332, now shows 757-200 equipment on my itin readout. It's still Flight 8 ICN-NRT-SEA despite the change of gauge at Narita.

My disinterest in sticking with The New Airline is now total.

Bagels

So, let's analyze (vs. Summer 2008)

new service:
JFK-NRT - daily 777
SLC-NRT - 5x weekly 332
DTW-PVG - 4x weekly 744
NRT-SGN - daily 757
ATL-NRT - four additional weekly flights, 777

equipment upgrades:
ATL-NRT - from 777 to 744

discontinued service/service reductions:
DTW-KIX-TPE - discontinued
NRT-CAN - discontinued
DTW-NGO-MNL - from daily to 5x weekly
ATL-PVG - from daily to 4x weekly
GUM-NGO - discontinued
SPN-NRT - daily 757 flight discontinued
SPN-KIX - discontinued

equipment downgrades:
PDX-NRT - from 332 to 763
GUM-NRT - from 333 to 763
NRT-ICN - from 332 to 757
NRT-BKK - from 332 to 757
NRT-PVG - from 744 to 332
NRT-HKG - from 744 to 333

---------------------------------------------------------

*** PDX-NRT-GUM from 330 to 763: Do we really know how well PDX-NRT's preformed? Although NW's made it known that they've been successful in luring strong corporate travel, I've suspected for awhile that this flight's the weakest performer to NRT (as one example, historically there's been an abundance of award seats -- -- and this is often the only route available during peak travel periods). "Right-sizing" this flight to a 763 seems understandable. And the GUM/SPN markets seemed to get hardest, losing a total of three flights (in addition to the downgrade) -- which explains where the 757 being deployed elsewhere are coming from. It also suggests GUM/SPN is currently a weak performer for DL-NW.

*** DTW-KIX-TPE & DTW-NGO-MNL: Allegedly DTW-KIX was always only a "marginal" performer. Then DTW's economy tanked. Then the USA's economy tanked. Then the Detroit auto industry tanked. Then the global economy began "slowing down." Besides, those 744 are needed in ATL .

*** CAN/PEK/PVG: DL-NW claimed a 30% drop in bookings to China in '08 vs. '07, despite the Olympics in PEK. They're still going ahead with DTW-PVG (a couple months later and in less frequency) and its massive 744. These factors likely lead to the downgrade of NRT-PVG, as well as continued frequency reduction of ATL-PVG. They're not going to try SEA-PEK this year, and seem to prefer to try their luck with NRT-HGN (NRT *is* a slot-controlled airport).

*** NRT-ICN: Well, they deployed their 332 elsewhere (from SEA/SFO/SLC to PEK/PVG/SIN)... guess they assumed they could push people onto ATL-ICN or one of KE's many, many, many flights to ICN.

*** NRT-BKK: No question that political unrest is affecting bookings to BKK (the country admits its tourist industry is struggling). 757 via the summer may be underkill, though.

*** NRT-HKG: This is the biggest surprise since NW is more-or-less using an A333 soley to operate HKG-NRT-HKG -- not a very efficient use of this aircraft. Maybe some of the maintenance is contracted out to HKG?

*** And of course we have new daily JFK-NRT, 5x weekly SLC-NRT, 4x more weekly ATL-NRT and a daily ATL-NRT 747 upgrade. See, the sky ISN'T falling after all!

Bagels

BTW, compare DL-NW's schedule to UA's:

IAD-NRT (777)
IAD-PEK (777)
ORD-NRT (744)
ORD-HKG (744)
ORD-PVG (744)
ORD-PEK (777)
SEA-NRT (777)
SFO-NRT (777, 744)
SFO-KIX (744)
SFO-HKG (744)
SFO-PVG (744)
SFO-PEK (744)
SFO-ICN (777)
LAX-NRT (744)
HNL-NRT (777)

NRT-ICN (777)
NRT-TPE (777)
NRT-BKK (744)
NRT-SIN (777)
HKG-SIN (744)
HKG-SGN (744)

Vs. last summer, UA's put smaller equipment on its IAD/ORD-PEK flights (understandable since the Olympics were held the year before), cut one of its two ORD-NRT flights, dropped SFO-TPE, eliminated LAX-HKG and deferred plans to start SFO-CAN. DL-NW isn't the only airline making cutbacks to Asia.

(*Also worth mentioning that over the past several years UA's transpacifc flights to NRT, as well as flights within Asia ex-NRT, have shrunk considerably. UA remains strong at HKG, despite the loss of LAX and the additional frequencies sometimes offered to SFO/ORD. UA has grown from mainland China - USA.)

BearX220

Remember, DL operated this flight back in the '90s, when there was a DL minihub/focus-city strategy at PDX, and could not make it go despite strong local corporate backing. Equip back then was MD11 IIRC.

There are usually no NW award seats available SEA-NRT, but often you'll find something SEA-PDX-NRT.

N227UA

Quite wrong. Japan does NOT have "beyond rights" to carry traffic originating from the US. JFK-GRU is operated under the typical 5th freedom, and this one is somewhat easily given by the US, but the third country, in this case Brazil, is likely to reject this kind of flight.

NW and UA have unlimited "beyond rights" to carry traffic originating from Japan without any restriction due to US-Japan bilateral treaty signed in 1952. Since Japan was one of the losers in World War II, they had to accept what the US demanded. Under this treaty, two passenger carriers and one cargo carrier are granted "beyond rights", which are currently held by NW/UA/FX.

All other cases you mentioned below are operated under the typical 5th freedom right, not like the special rights that NW/UA/FX have in Japan.

Stripe

In theory but they're not making it easy. I have WBC award trip coming up in June: AUS-DTW-NRT-KIX, then NRT-ICN a few days later, then ICN-NRT-MSP-AUS. All for 120K miles. NRT-ICN (NW7) is in Y because J/C/D is zeroed out (although it's wide open if you're connecting to it). I found Perksaver availability on several more convenient flights on KE but NW wants to charge me an additional 45K miles because of the change in carrier.

I wasn't going to get worked up aout having to sit in Y on that segment because it was a 330, but I'm now looking at the 757 in Y which is an entirely different experience.

Very frustrating. Too many schedule changes, and I'm sure they aren't done with them. I was also affected when they dropped DTW-KIX.

davetravels

First of all, I booked a reward trip a day before the new 3 tier system - on Jan 14 - for PIT/BKK/PIT Sept 26/Oct 12. My eMail trip receipt shows NRT/BKK/NRT as A332. I just happened to look at the resv yesterday - 4 days later - and it's showing a 757, so it does seem to be potentially more than temporary.

I've been going to BKK for Y E A R S - and it was on a 744 for a long time. It was always packed - I figured probably low rev discount tix. When they downsized - they skipped over the A333 to an A332!! I was shocked back then!! I was there in mid November, and when I booked it, it was an A332 - but shortly before travel, it was upsized to an A333! Lovin' my seat 10B!! But W O W - to see this as a 757! I'm speechless!! What do they give you for an ECV when BKK/NRT is overbooked!?!?

As far as flying KE, they WILL NOT pre-assign exit row seats until the airport!! On my return in Nov, I had to do BKK/ICN/NRT/USA to get an award ticket, and, when I got to BKK, I asked about an exit row seat, and was told - Oh, you have to get here 4 hours before departure to get those seats! Yeah - right!!. So, if I can get a 90 day out exit row seat on a 757, I guess it'll still be better than flying KE. One of the few perks left of being NW Elite. I don't know what will happen to exit row TATL/TPAC seats once the DL intergration is completed.

avidflyer

Just got a schedule change for a ticket I have booked in May. NW 11/12 on a 747-4 NRT to HKG has changed to NW7/8 on a 330. No big deal but I gotta tell ya...I have been op-up'ed on this route more than any other so I don't get the down gauge. This is a huge intra Asia holiday flight and it is usually very full. Whatever.

NW-A332

I just checked my reservation for June and noticed that my 744 flight HNL-NRT and return has now changed to an A332. I thought that this flight regularly fills up. The second HNL-NRT flight that day is still an A333, but the day I return, June 22, both flights are operated by A332s. I'm mad because I really wanted to sit in the upper deck again of the 744, but it looks like that won't happen now.

dw8146

Just checking my June flight and was pleasantly surprised to see an equipment change on the NRT-BKK leg from the 757 back to the A332. Thought we were going to be stuck with the 757 for the rest of year. Checking schedules, apparently the equipment upgrade starts with June flights. The flip side is it also looks like they've adjusted B fares up by about $800 for the route I fly.

FlytheTail

For updates on international equipment changes, which mentions this change and others, you might want to review this thread:
Updated DL-NW Summer '09 Atlantic/Pacific Schedule (more changes).
Indeed, this is good news for BKK travelers.

azj

IIRC and in talking to friends at the BKK base, the 332 is a temporary things for the summer. Hopefully, like several other things, DL will have woken up and realized a 752 on this route is suicide. Then make 1,001 changes before deciding once again to keep the 330 on the route. My predictions are that even if the 752 returns, it is only until they can realistically get a 763 on the route.