NW Domestic First Class - Worst in the industry???
Apr 5, 2004, 3:40 pm
#76
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 5,076
Originally Posted by magic111
Still breathlessly waiting to here your opinion (if any) on worst/best.
Originally Posted by magic111
Also when deciding worst/best (if you are ever going to do it) consider things like FA's, availability of upgrades (important criteria) because if you never get upgraded you really do not have an ability to really compare in the real world do you, on-time performance, etc., etc. But if you only want to limit yourself to food choice fine.
Apr 6, 2004, 12:17 am
#77
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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Originally Posted by 007
Honestly.....Do YOU really think NWA's tryig to sell their FC products when they are giving out free upgrade to all of thier elites???????? Full fare domestic first class ticket on NWA???? Comon...
Thanks for making a point for me!!! This is so ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that surely most of you should agree:
Why is NW BY FAR the easiest airline to upgrade on?? Why do they GIVE AWAY $2000 FC seats for FREE (on $100 tickets!!)?? The answer is simple: NW recognizes that they dont sell hardly any P tickets because they dont have much to offer up front. NW knows that if the WP program was the SAME as all other airlines FF programs, they would have a much lower FF membership than the others. THEY REALIZE that, to most flyers, their service is subpar. In order to compensate for this, they have made the BRILLIANT strategic move of making the benefits of the WP program FAR SUPERIOR to other airlines.
We are all EXTREMELY frequent, knowledgable, and informed flyers. A lot of you dont care about ANYTHING except status, upgrades, & mileage. But just for a second put yourself in the shoes of a college student going home for the summer or a grandmother going to visit a new grandchild (INfrequent flyers). My friends always "get bored" on a NW flight because there is nothing to do (no IFE). My grandmother always asks me why NW doesnt have Frappucinos, & United does. Small things might not matter to us FFers, but they make a difference to MANY people that dont fly as much. If someone flies only once or twice a year, their memories of each experience are much more detailed. I sometimes become pretty numb myself doing it every week........
EVERY "major" in America tries to protect the integrity of the price structure of their FC "product" by limiting access. Except NW. The boys in Minneapolis are very shrewd. They know they need to go the extra mile to increase loads because they UNDERSTAND they offer less service & amenities. Beefing up the WP program IS A DIRECT COMPENSATION for the realization that they simply dont measure up to other airlines......
The posts in this thread have consistently made the same point: People are SO turned on by free, easy upgrades that they will stay with NW forever!! Why are those upgrades handed out for free like candy?? I gave my opinion, whats yours???
Apr 6, 2004, 6:40 am
#78
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NW Platinum, SPG Platinum, HHonors Diamond.
Posts: 1,186
Happy with NW!
Regarding the non-ff typesis coach that much different on NW, CO or DL metal?
Chances are thats what they(non-ff types) will be flying.
A pop and a bag of nuts is a pop and a bag of nuts.
Does United really offer Frappucinos?
Why do they GIVE AWAY $2000 FC seats for FREE (on $100 tickets!!)?? I would love to see this one! Talk about an urban ledgend!
NW is notoriously stingy in offering their first class seats and do not give them to just any PAX. If there is a free and easy way to go about getting upgraded, share it with us.
I do miss the movies and slightly better ambiance in COs first class but would not trade my 99.8% upgrade ratio on NW for a 50-75% on CO for anything.
What airlines are you flying so much First Class on? It looks like you found the perfect one that meets your needs. Why even bother with NW?
Chances are thats what they(non-ff types) will be flying.
A pop and a bag of nuts is a pop and a bag of nuts.
Does United really offer Frappucinos?
Why do they GIVE AWAY $2000 FC seats for FREE (on $100 tickets!!)?? I would love to see this one! Talk about an urban ledgend!
NW is notoriously stingy in offering their first class seats and do not give them to just any PAX. If there is a free and easy way to go about getting upgraded, share it with us.
I do miss the movies and slightly better ambiance in COs first class but would not trade my 99.8% upgrade ratio on NW for a 50-75% on CO for anything.What airlines are you flying so much First Class on? It looks like you found the perfect one that meets your needs. Why even bother with NW?
Last edited by TRVLRZ; Apr 6, 2004 at 6:47 am
Apr 6, 2004, 7:04 am
#79
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Originally Posted by keithguy
Those statements are not representative.
Originally Posted by keithguy
Others upgrade with just much ease/difficulty on CO as they do on NW.
Look at that an opinion on availability of upgrades. I am impressed that you are going out on a limb and saying that they are equal but we will have to agree to disagree as planes that do not have a first class have zero upgrade availability.
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Apr 6, 2004, 9:27 am
#80
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Originally Posted by kidvintage
I gave my opinion, whats yours???
When you talk about the college student or the grandmother (and I am paraphrasing here) it reminds me of the my co-workers here in the office.
They know that I travel a lot (I have begun not telling them about the weekend trips to london
) and they want in on the secrets too for their one or two trips a year. But ultimately in discussions with them what they want is a low fare with a minimum of stops.
co-worker #1 believes that she has a duty to be vigilant on the entire trip and generally is so nervous of flying that she can not even read or listen to music. She concentrates on UA and has never earned a free ticket or an upgrade because if she sees a fare that is lower she will fly that airline instead.
co-worker #2 use to be an FA before becoming the administrative assistant and uses priceline for her one or two flights a year. (Probably the smartest of the lot)
co-worker #3 wants to fly to South American locations in the summer with a minimum of stops and can't understand why I can't find the $300 or $400 dollar fares that he saw advertised in January. This is a difficult one as he is my manager. I try to explain to him that if he joins a FFP program and gets a credit card with that program he should be able to get one of those trips free about every three years but he looks at me like I have a screw loose.
There are others as you have posted and there is no quick solution that I can offered them other than each persons needs/wants will give them a different solution and no one airline is going to be the solution for everyone else. As you pointed out other airlines offer some of the things that you think are important for domestic first and you desire that NW would match.
The question is that with all the variables does that make them the worst/best of domestic 1st? The jury is still out and might even be deadlocked at this point.
Once again thanks for starting the thread ^
Apr 6, 2004, 9:39 am
#81
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Santa Ana -SNA
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Posts: 227
Originally Posted by magic111
And I for one appreciate that you have taken the time to do so. Am still amazed that no one else has welcomed you to the boards and you have undoubtably started a thread that has provoked a lot of discussion and an incredible amount of views.
When you talk about the college student or the grandmother (and I am paraphrasing here) it reminds me of the my co-workers here in the office.
They know that I travel a lot (I have begun not telling them about the weekend trips to london ) and they want in on the secrets too for their one or two trips a year.
But ultimately in discussions with them what they want is a low fare with a minimum of stops.
co-worker #1 believes that she has a duty to be vigilant on the entire trip and generally is so nervous of flying that she can not even read or listen to music. She concentrates on UA and has never earned a free ticket or an upgrade because if she sees a fare that is lower she will fly that airline instead.
co-worker #2 use to be an FA before becoming the administrative assistant and uses priceline for her one or two flights a year. (Probably the smartest of the lot)
co-worker #3 wants to fly to South American locations in the summer with a minimum of stops and can't understand why I can't find the $300 or $400 dollar fares that he saw advertised in January. This is a difficult one as he is my manager. I try to explain to him that if he joins a FFP program and gets a credit card with that program he should be able to get one of those trips free about every three years but he looks at me like I have a screw loose.
There are others as you have posted and there is no quick solution that I can offered them other than each persons needs/wants will give them a different solution and no one airline is going to be the solution for everyone else. As you pointed out other airlines offer some of the things that you think are important for domestic first and you desire that NW would match.
The question is that with all the variables does that make them the worst/best of domestic 1st? The jury is still out and might even be deadlocked at this point.
Once again thanks for starting the thread ^
When you talk about the college student or the grandmother (and I am paraphrasing here) it reminds me of the my co-workers here in the office.
They know that I travel a lot (I have begun not telling them about the weekend trips to london
) and they want in on the secrets too for their one or two trips a year. But ultimately in discussions with them what they want is a low fare with a minimum of stops.
co-worker #1 believes that she has a duty to be vigilant on the entire trip and generally is so nervous of flying that she can not even read or listen to music. She concentrates on UA and has never earned a free ticket or an upgrade because if she sees a fare that is lower she will fly that airline instead.
co-worker #2 use to be an FA before becoming the administrative assistant and uses priceline for her one or two flights a year. (Probably the smartest of the lot)
co-worker #3 wants to fly to South American locations in the summer with a minimum of stops and can't understand why I can't find the $300 or $400 dollar fares that he saw advertised in January. This is a difficult one as he is my manager. I try to explain to him that if he joins a FFP program and gets a credit card with that program he should be able to get one of those trips free about every three years but he looks at me like I have a screw loose.
There are others as you have posted and there is no quick solution that I can offered them other than each persons needs/wants will give them a different solution and no one airline is going to be the solution for everyone else. As you pointed out other airlines offer some of the things that you think are important for domestic first and you desire that NW would match.
The question is that with all the variables does that make them the worst/best of domestic 1st? The jury is still out and might even be deadlocked at this point.
Once again thanks for starting the thread ^
MagicMan - Why does NW "give away" FC when EVERY SINGLE other airline actively & desperately tries to sell it for max$$$$?? I am very curious how you would respond to my previous post before this one.......................
Apr 6, 2004, 9:47 am
#82
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Santa Ana -SNA
Programs: NW Platinum Since The beginning of Platinum- NW Million Miler
Posts: 227
[QUOTE=TRVLRZ][I]
Why do they GIVE AWAY $2000 FC seats for FREE (on $100 tickets!!)?? I would love to see this one! Talk about an urban ledgend!
NW is notoriously stingy in offering their first class seats and do not give them to just any PAX. If there is a free and easy way to go about getting upgraded, share it with us.
QUOTE]
My friend, it's called Elite status!!!!!!
Why do they GIVE AWAY $2000 FC seats for FREE (on $100 tickets!!)?? I would love to see this one! Talk about an urban ledgend!
NW is notoriously stingy in offering their first class seats and do not give them to just any PAX. If there is a free and easy way to go about getting upgraded, share it with us.
QUOTE]
My friend, it's called Elite status!!!!!!
Apr 6, 2004, 10:04 am
#83
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Santa Ana -SNA
Programs: NW Platinum Since The beginning of Platinum- NW Million Miler
Posts: 227
Originally Posted by magic111
But ultimately in discussions with them what they want is a low fare with a minimum of stops.
^
^
MagicMan - I am SOOOOO glad you made this point for me!!! Since airlines match fares 95% of the time, and since 95% of city-pairs in US48 can be travelled with one-stop service...............the separation of airlines then falls to amenities, service, & IFE.
Live near a JetBlue station?? Those DirectTV billboards are EVERYWHERE!!! Do you think their BRILLIANT management team would "push" that feature so hard if it "didn't matter" to most travelers?? They are separating themselves by offering better amenities, service, and IFE. Judging by their tremendous growth in both load-factor & revenue.....looks like their strategy is working perfectly!!
What does NW offer?? Sadly, not very much. That is why they "give away" FC to anyone & everyone with an Elite card. Gotta keep the FFers coming back with the freebies, 'cause they sure ain't coming back for anything else!!!
Apr 6, 2004, 11:27 am
#84
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Originally Posted by kidvintage
MagicMan - Why does NW "give away" FC when EVERY SINGLE other airline actively & desperately tries to sell it for max$$$$?? I am very curious how you would respond to my previous post before this one.......................
Every day I listen to radio ads for ANA airlines that make me want to run down to the airport and buy a ticket for immediate travel
For me it isn't going to happen but for some the ads probably worked same as the JetBlue ads (also I believe JetBlue just received some sort of high rating on their service.) This might be influential on the infrequent traveler (higher percentage) than the frequent traveler (lower percentage.)
It is a mistake to mix infrequent travlers with elite frequent travelers travel perceptions.
The onus we have as elite travelers are the "golden handcuffs" (origin of quote: PremEx) and ultimately that might not be such a bad deal. Especially with the rewards that are given for wearing them by the airlines. But if one is trying to break loose (little or no rewards until status is obtained in another FFB) it is difficult to do so and it is easier to follow the path of least resistance (rewards.)
About your previous post and I believe it is the one questioning meal choices and where you stated "all" airlines offer a meal choice to "all" passengers in domestic first. I thought I answered that with the information about FEBO on AA. All airlines do not offer a meal choice to all domestic first passengers based on my personal experience just as all airlines do not offer IFE on all their flights in domestic first based on my personal experience although to be honest I do not think you said that about IFE and only used the word "others" in reference to IFE.
Apr 6, 2004, 12:58 pm
#85
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Originally Posted by kidvintage
Live near a JetBlue station?? Those DirectTV billboards are EVERYWHERE!!! Do you think their BRILLIANT management team would "push" that feature so hard if it "didn't matter" to most travelers?? They are separating themselves by offering better amenities, service, and IFE. Judging by their tremendous growth in both load-factor & revenue.....looks like their strategy is working perfectly!!
The big 6's problem is that their target market is shrinking. So they're all scrambling to define their niche. NW mgmnt has (as you say) shrwedly identified their market, and they're going after it. They've become a defacto "first class LCC". Works for them, works for me.
I hold *A Gold status :-:
, which does absolutely nothing for me on UA or LH in terms of upgrades. Sure I can get E+ (more pitch, incidentally, the same as FC on a NW DC9), but that is not the same thing. So NW still gets most of my biz, even to Europe, where UA/LH are far, far superior to NW/KL. -----
As far as "Is NW FC worst in industry?"
Sure.
But who cares?
I think that everyone who has answered your original question has said, basically: What good are the other carriers' pointy ends if I can't get in into them?
And that's basically it.
Apr 6, 2004, 4:01 pm
#86
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Originally Posted by notsosmart
That is an excellent point; of course, you're right. JetBlue mgmnt has identified a target market, and is going after it full force.
The big 6's problem is that their target market is shrinking. So they're all scrambling to define their niche. NW mgmnt has (as you say) shrwedly identified their market, and they're going after it. They've become a defacto "first class LCC". Works for them, works for me.
I hold *A Gold status :-: , which does absolutely nothing for me on UA or LH in terms of upgrades. Sure I can get E+ (more pitch, incidentally, the same as FC on a NW DC9), but that is not the same thing. So NW still gets most of my biz, even to Europe, where UA/LH are far, far superior to NW/KL.
-----
As far as "Is NW FC worst in industry?"
Sure.
But who cares?
I think that everyone who has answered your original question has said, basically: What good are the other carriers' pointy ends if I can't get in into them?
And that's basically it.
The big 6's problem is that their target market is shrinking. So they're all scrambling to define their niche. NW mgmnt has (as you say) shrwedly identified their market, and they're going after it. They've become a defacto "first class LCC". Works for them, works for me.
I hold *A Gold status :-:
, which does absolutely nothing for me on UA or LH in terms of upgrades. Sure I can get E+ (more pitch, incidentally, the same as FC on a NW DC9), but that is not the same thing. So NW still gets most of my biz, even to Europe, where UA/LH are far, far superior to NW/KL. -----
As far as "Is NW FC worst in industry?"
Sure.
But who cares?
I think that everyone who has answered your original question has said, basically: What good are the other carriers' pointy ends if I can't get in into them?
And that's basically it.
You hit the nail on the head!!!! I agree 100% with EVERYTHING you said. NW OFFERS BY FAR THE WORST FC in the US...........but we will all still continue to fly them because it is fun to sit in a "$2000 seat" on a $75 ticket!!! THE FREE UPGRADES WILL MAKE US STAY FOREVER!!!
Which leads me to my next point.....................the CO FFers are EXTREMELY angry with the changes made by CO this year regarding their FF program. We (NW Elite) all have NOTHING to fear - because NW will NEVER EVER make the same decisions that CO made in regards to FF program. The boys in Minneapolis are WAY too smart........they know if they pulled the same stunts that CO pulled, we would ALL leave. In a heartbeat. Without hesitation. Because without the superior WP program, NW would have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to compel people to fly them.....................
Apr 6, 2004, 4:23 pm
#87
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NW Platinum, SPG Platinum, HHonors Diamond.
Posts: 1,186
Where are these $75.00 tix???????????? I may need a mileage run @ some point and they would certainly come in handy.
If the NW first class pisses some one off so bad, I would scoot on over to CO and/or DL, get their Platinum status and roll the dice every week when you fly.
As it is, I like NW first class, I like the seats, I like the drinks, hell I dont even mind the food.
If I want extra entertainment, I put a movie in my portable DVD player and watch what I want to watch. If I want better food, Ill spend the $10.00 and get a meal to go. But I will do it all in my NW first class seat with out having to sit in some one lap in coach.
The next time you are upgraded, tell the GA that NW first class sucks, is the worst in the industry and to put you in coach, that would be a statement.
If the NW first class pisses some one off so bad, I would scoot on over to CO and/or DL, get their Platinum status and roll the dice every week when you fly.
As it is, I like NW first class, I like the seats, I like the drinks, hell I dont even mind the food.
If I want extra entertainment, I put a movie in my portable DVD player and watch what I want to watch. If I want better food, Ill spend the $10.00 and get a meal to go. But I will do it all in my NW first class seat with out having to sit in some one lap in coach.
The next time you are upgraded, tell the GA that NW first class sucks, is the worst in the industry and to put you in coach, that would be a statement.
Apr 6, 2004, 9:22 pm
#88
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 120
If NWA was to increase Plat qualification to 100 k vs 75k ....increase seat pitch thus reducing number of rows in 1st class......install IFE.......AND stop elite upgrade benefit and adopt AA or UA's method. Would you like it better? lol Quit whinning.....either take it or leave.
Apr 6, 2004, 9:27 pm
#89
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by kidvintage
THE FREE UPGRADES WILL MAKE US STAY FOREVER!!!
Apr 6, 2004, 9:44 pm
#90
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by kidvintage
Why should the FIRST CLASS passenger in seat 4D be treated differently than the passenger in 2D??? There is a 90+% chance you will not get a selection of meal in 4D!!!
Would love to hear where you get the "90%+" figures from.