Has there been any consideration for this route? It's a long drive to SFO, connecting in MSP is a pain (considering another connection for me in DTW), and the service to MSP is minimal.

Have they ever run this route before?

Wishful thinking?

Probably wishful thinking... personally, I would hope that they would add SJC-DTW before SMF-DTW. (granted, I'm biased.)

If NW can't support west-of-Mississippi River destinations with frequency and good yields from MSP, one shouldn't hold out much hope for service from DTW. It's too far in range (and theoretical seat comfort) for a current RJ.

Not sure if you're talking about SAC or SJC... SJC-MSP (198/200) and MSP-SJC (195/197) are usually quite full. They used to have SJC-DTW, but they discontinued it a while ago (2001?). Anyhow, I think it's long past time to bring it back. CO's SJC-EWR is almost always full, as is DL's SJC-ATL. I absolutely hate having to do SJC-MSP-DTW-whatever (which I do sometimes have to do), as the MSP-DTW is always a crapshoot for me. There's like 3 flights within five minutes, inevitably a number of pax are waiting at the wrong gate, and I've seen the flight delayed a few times more than I care to recall.

As for SMF-MSP (394/398), been a while since I've taken either of those so I cannot comment on load.

Personally, I really like the way CO handles SJC. Lots (relatively) of flights to IAH, which let you make reasonable connections, and then a late night flight (redeye, dep 9:30p) to EWR. DL does similar, lots of flights to SLC and two flights to ATL. (Unfortunately, no flights to JFK as far as I know.) CO and DL certainly seem able to do OK with this model, and so personally I would love to see SJC-DTW return. I would love to see NW ramp up at SJC - perhaps even 2-3x MSP, 1x DTW, 1x MEM?

edit: wrote sac instead of smf. oops.

What does load have to do with the success of a flight? If they're filling the plane with $200 connectors, that doesn't mean that a full flight is a profitable one.

From a West Coaster's perpsective, NW is also at a disadvantage because their hubs are not terribly popular endpoints for travel, meaning they wind up flying more connectors, which are less profitable customers.

Further, when you look at the geography of NW's hubs, they tend to be all in the north. So final connections to the south don't make sense from a travel time perspective (e.g., most people would rather fly SJC-IAH-FLL than SJC-MSP-FLL).

So, in this example, NW has the advantage of northern or eastern connections. The problem is, many large cities in the north and east already have non-stop service from the Bay Area: BOS, JFK, EWR, ORD, WAS, etc.

That means that unless NW has the lowest price (and our shopper is price sensitive), or someone is loyal to NW, the NW routes out of the West are really best suited for people going to the midwest, or smaller towns back east, where they have to connect anyway.

Of course, if you look at those towns (say ROC, BUF, PVD, etc.), you have to connect to get there anyway, so there's really no advantage to flying NW via MSP vs. say UA via ORD. It becomes a purely competitive issue of price and schedule at that point.

Further, I bet NW would probably love to downsize SJC and SMF to 70- or 100-seat jets to get only the best customers that their hubs can support, but due to the length of the flights, but they are forced to put larger aircraft on these routes, simply for the range. That, in turn, exacerbates the connectors problem, which is why NW is forced to lower prices to fill their planes.

So I really don't think we'll see NW expanding significantly out of West Coast secondary markets. If anything, we may see the reverse, like we saw with RNO and ONT. Because if they were making good money, NW would have expanded in SMF/SJC by now, and opened up shop in OAK.

While I agree that load alone is not the full story, I still think that if they have two flights at full load, that indicates they can probably handle a third. And yes, MSP and DTW are both northern hubs, but actually MEM wouldn't be such a bad choice if they wanted to pick up some of the southern and/or east-coast (NC/SC/VA/DC/GA) connections. Oh well, it's probably all just wishful thinking for now.

Surely you jest.

Being a UA PremExec, I'm sure you're aware of the hell that ORD can be, especially concerning connections. Have you connected much through MSP/DTW? The obvious advantage of NW via MSP over UA via ORD is the airport and the airline's infrastructure at said airport.

I'll grant you that UA is a larger airline and with SFO/ORD being hubs, schedule and aircraft type win-out over NW to DTW/MSP. But as a connecting airport, ORD comes in at a distant third to DTW/MSP. It's up to the airlines to market this aspect, however.

While I have connected a great deal at MSP and DTW (DTW is great, btw, not sure why MSP is so special), keep in mind my perspective is a Bay Area one. Flying out out SJC in this example, NW has two flights a day, and most people don't even know who NW is, or where they fly. So while the infrastructure may be better, access to that infrastructure is actually worse, as NW's reaccommodation in the event of an irregularity may not be as good.

MSP is "so special" because it doesn't buckle at the knees due to the slightest irregularity. And DTW is a gem across all U.S. airports. MSP should not be knocked because of that unless all other airports are similarly knocked.

Anyway, while I agree that NW has limited service to SJC (and SMF), they certainly have options for offloading passengers onto their partners when necessary. It's the traveler's own fault for not knowing about other options, and if someone is repeatedly dissatisfied with their airline of choice, they should look elsewhere rather than stay in the same dysfunctional relationship.

Happy bumps.

I've found NW to be really good with accommodating pax on other airlines during IROPS, at stations with few NW options, just my personal observation however.

I prefer DTW for connections (easy, long straight terminal with monorail, moving walkways and nicer WCs), but MSP is also great in dealing with its weather making it a much better choice for me than ORD and much easier to navigate too.

Maybe NW will bring the SJC-DTW flight back once Google brings their Ann Arbor office up to the projected 1000 employees

Back to SMF (and SJC if you like)...

I agree that NW is relatively invisable out here. (Not so much in SFO, but very much here in SMF).

SMF has fairly regular service to ATL, IAH, ORD, PHX, LAS, and some other service sprinked in to places like JFK (the redeye on B6) and a TON of Southwest flights. They are tearing down the older of two terminals and replacing it with a new terminal strikingly similar to DTW (certainly not as large, but it looks nice).

Sacramento is fairly remote, but the I-80 corridor to San Francisco is pretty dense. Davis, Dixon, Vacaville, Fairfield, etc. are on the way and have plenty of residents who probably would prefer SMF to SFO.

MSP is OK, but it's out of the way and the service is limited to one or two am flights. I have a 5 hour layover Tuesday (destination is, of all places, DTW).

So, I just can't imagine why the dollars and cents don't work for this market, if that's the case. I'd even consider a redeye if they'd put one on.

I'm working out of that office on Wednesday, because I found it cheaper to fly home for Thanksgiving (SFO-DTW) on Tuesday rather than Wednesday. Surely I count for at least 1,000 employees .

It's rather simple: with NW not having a West Coast hub, and SMF being a second-tier (or even third-tier) market, there just isn't enough demand for more than two flights, especially when NW serves SFO fairly well. I wouldn't expect any additional SMF service.