I didn't see an obvious place to post a question about my recent flight on Mesaba's RJ85s, so I apologize if this is the wrong spot. However, it appears as though there might be a couple of pilots for them in here.

I was really impressed with the spacious interior and the feel of the jet (it didn't feel small like other RJs), but during the climb there was a noise that really worried my wife. A few minutes after takeoff, the engines sounded like they really revved up higher and higher in pitch, and then suddenly quieted down again. They did this on both the outbound and return flights, so this is obviously some routine feature of the Avros. What causes that sound?

Thanks in advance!

andyc,

Welcome to FT!

The Mesaba AVRO RJ85's have the most comfortable seats and best seat pitch in the entire Northwest fleet.

Check out this link:

http://www.seatguru.com/northwest/ARJ.shtml

You can also look at the other Northwest a/c and see the best/worst seats. Next time you call reservations have this website on your PC and you can avoid the non-reclining/least comfortable seats.

RC

I use to work for NWA, and commuted to work on this plane all the time. It is a great plane. That noise you hear is the flaps retracting. It's sort of high pitched tone. There is a similar noise when the flaps extend for landing. That one is more a deeper sound, and doesn't last quite as long. My friend that worked there, said they refered to the noise when the flaps extended as "Jurrasic Park", because it sort of sounded like a dinosaur.

Definately a distinctive sound. I can always tell when an Avro is flying over my house. They sound like the engine rev as though they were going into a nose dive, for a couple of seconds. They are probably at 4-6 thousand feet overhead. I can see why the sound can be worrysome, but nothing to worry about.

I, too, love the RJ85s. I mean, an RJ with a first class section...hoowah.

They are a little quirky, but it just adds to the charm. Here's another instance: Has anyone else noticed that when descending, they seem to point the nose down in a sort of real gentle dive instead of cutting the power and "floating" down?

My favorite regional jet. Sadly, I read somewhere ont his board that they are no longer being manufactured???

I've flown every type of regional jet out there except for the 328JET. When you take into consideration spaciousness, seat pitch and a First Class section, well, quite simply Mesaba's AVRO RJ85s represent not only the finest regional jet in America but quite possibly the world!

Nice to return to the board with talk regarding my office. The noise everyone seems to be mystified about (or worried about) is the aerodynamics in action during the retraction and deployment of the flaps. It only occurs from the 0-18 degree position and the same in reverse. True... we call it jurrasic park, or the moaning dinosaur. As for the pitch during decent, that is all based on the pilot flying and his/her controls. We can come down like a brick if we have to... and many times have got it up to 5,000 feet per minute because of a poor vector or a late decent by ATC. The RJ85 is really a small mainline jet - as witnessed by most other operators of the airplane in the world. "Regional" is relative... From Aspen to New York and Regina to Pensacola and many points inbetween hardly counts as the true meaning of "Regional." We're actually a NATIONAL carrier... The controlers in DTW, MSP and MEM do a VERY good job calling us BacJets or Avroliners - to distinguish us from the CRJ for indentification purposes.

Let's also keep in mind why there are only 69 seats and are so roomy. If NW had their way - they would oeprate it with 100 seats. But because of the NW pilots scope clause the plane is limited to less than 70 seats. It's a great marketing tool - but it's comfyness is definitely not 100% based on the customer.

We are proud of our "Smurfjet", "Ken and Barbie Funjet", "Chubby", "Bacjet" or whatever the nickname of the day may be.


AZJ

[This message has been edited by azj (edited 01-20-2003).]

Thanks so much for the interesting info, azj. I was also tickled that on another thread you found some of your old buddies. They must be very proud of you now.

May I ask just one more question? Is the RJ85 related in any way to the Bae146s? There is a lot of outward resemblance, but little on the inside. Of course, maybe that's because the ones I flew on were configured for 88 pax.

Didn't mean to take up your time, but it's really nice having you here!

Sure is! Just a newer version from what I understand. I'm sure azj can offer a detailed description of the differences.

On a sidenote I believe the 146/RJ85 are the only commercial jets with enough high altitude/short runway performance to serve Aspen. Flying into Aspen is always an adventure... between the "Jurassic Park" noise, seeing the neighboring peaks right outside the window, and coming in at a really steep angle. Not a wise destination for those timid about flying!

http://www.smiliner.com is a great resource for information on these relatively rare planes.

(edited to add URL)

[This message has been edited by bikenski (edited 01-20-2003).]

Thanks!

I love talking about the Avro to people who are interested... so don't feel you're wasting my time when you ask questions! I entertained questions from a KC135 pilot the other day in Grand Forks. He kinda peeked in as he was getting on and could tell he wanted to see more. I invited him in for questions... it was neat.

The RJ85 family (RJ70, 85, 100) is the second generation of the BAE family (146-100, 200, 300). This company, now currently called BAE Aerospace has had many names - to add to the confusion of the a/c names. The third generation was to be the RJX family - but post 9/11 was scrapped. The Avro RJ family has an updated flight deck (mostly glass), FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) engines and upgraded thrust on the LF507 engines. The service ceiling is Fl350 instead of FL310 and the MMO (Max Mach) is .73 instead of 72. Basically, those are the only changes...


AZJ

And thanks a bunch to you, azj! I do appreciate the input.

"May the wind always be at yer back" ...except when landing or taking off.

Thank you for the great info and insight, azj and others. I was attracted to the Avro from the first time I saw it. It was so visually different from other planes I wondered if something was wrong with it. However, the flights were delightful.

Not sure they would be as nice with 100 seats instead of 69, though. That sounds like it might be more sardine-like than a CRJ.

The reason the ARJ/146 are the only "real" jets that can make it in and out of Aspen is they are the only planes that can turn fast enough without hitting AJAX or any other mountain if they have to do a go around.

When flying into the valley, take notice of a "HUGE" dip about 1,000 feet above the ground on short final into Pitkin Field... that's because of the winds... the 146 can handle it gracefully whereas an airframe like the CRJ or ERJ would have one heck of a time getting in... plus they would have to come in at normal landing speed + 30 kts to maintain the change in winds over the ridge.

The footprint (landing gear size) has a lot to do w/ the aircraft as well.. take notice that you NEVER have a rough landing on an Avro ARJ85 or BAe 146....

-n

A remarkable plane indeed: here are four Discovery movie clips, two of landings, two of takeoffs, demonstrating the 146/ARJ's abilities. They are all in .avi format, playable by, among others, Windows Media Player. I couldn't find the original links, so I uploaded them as follows:

Landing 1, 732 KB. Turning sharply just before touchdown.
Landing 2, 402 KB. Crosswind landing.
Takeoff 1, 635 KB. "Dusty", with immediate right turn.
Takeoff 2, 443 KB. Nice shot of a crosswind takeoff.




[This message has been edited by SK (edited 01-22-2003).]