OK, this may be a dumb question that has been asked a million times before, but why do the 146/ARJ have four engines?? Doesn't this increase the maintenance cost, fuel consumption, etc.?

A flight attendant on Mesaba told me Sunday that the leases for the Avro's are expiring soon, and she thought they may be phased out. This would be too bad, because, like everyone else, I really like them. A few skinny RJ's are creeping into the lineup here in Columbus.

Remedy is correct. I loved flying AVROS out of Columbus, but I have gotten stuck on several Canadair RJs to Memphis recently. Too bad.

Columbus is becoming a real RJ center. Virtually all flights to NYC, Washington or Chicago are RJs on USAir, Delta (nonstop), American and America West. NW offers jet service, but with a stop in Detroit (which makes same day travel to Chicago impossible if a court case lingers to the last minute). To avoid RJs, there is ONLY United to Chicago, Continental to EWR and nothing to our nation's capital! At 6'4, this is the pits! PLEASE BRING BACK THE AVROS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unimatrixone:

The are four engines on the AVROs to make them look like B52s. Other than that ....

NW owns about a dozen ARJs, the others are leased. The leases don't expire any time soon, so the ARJs will be in the fleet for awhile.

I'm told that they are the only aircraft that can fly in and out of Aspen, CO (ASE). Both UA and NW use them. I hope NW continues their seasonal service to ASE!

The AVROs are configured with the first class seating because of a labor agreement with the pilots' union which limits NW to 36 69-seat aircraft.

A likely replacement for the AVRO would be the Canadiar RJ700 minus 1 seat.

Obviously, it would be good-bye to first class.

[This message has been edited by Billiken (edited 01-22-2003).]

The B52 has eight engines.

I remember a post on the HP forum that indicated that there were plans for a first class section on America West regional jets? It would certainly help with us CMH flyers that are having more RJ's in service. Why be an elite flyer if there is no FC (besides the shorter lines).

Phil

Jet:

I know a B52 has 8 engines. My sentence said "more like a B52" not "exactly like a B52." But is still DOES look more like a B52 than any other commercial passenger plane.

My first time seeing the Avro in MEM I thought it looked more like a mini-cargo plane with the high wing and four engines. What a great plane though, I wish more US Airlines had them instead of the ERJs and CRJs.

To me, it looks like a mini C-141 Starlifter. Same high tail, high wing, and same # of engines.

Of course, the Avro is warm, a LOT quieter, and you get to sit facing forward instead of backward (or in sideways on canvas racks).

<Edited to add: That may be the cargo plane atlas1126 was thinking of...>

[This message has been edited by hnechets (edited 01-22-2003).]

Lots of theories as to why there are 4 engines. THe main reason was that when the plane was being designed in the early 70s there weren't any jets engines small enough and reliable enough to hang just two on the wongs. So they opted for 4 smaller helicopter engines. The added bonus to this was the fact that there are 4 and when one is lost it is nearly a non-event. That leads to the performance issues in Aspen... should a CRJ or ERJ lose an engine at V1 or on the climbout - there is NO WAY with the high density altitude and thrust on just 1 engine will it be able to get out of the valley. However with the BACjet - if 1 is lost there is still lots of power to get outta there. The plane is certified for 3 engine ferries and we train for 2 engine go arounds! The thick wing and barn door flaps make it a great STOL (Short field takeoff and landing) aircraft. We may be slow... but we're sure versitile. Too bad NW doesn't put our avros to use the way they ought to be. And as far as a smooth landing ALL THE TIME... hahaha... true - the trailing link gear is very forgiving and will absorb almost all of our bad landing events - but every one of us has had our share of awful landings! My last one was in CMH on Christmas eve. We all have bad landings once in a while - sometimes the bottom just falls out from under you in a shift in wind or a mini wind shear. Or sometimes one just pulls the power back too early or too late and drives it on. And sometimes firm landings are necessary based on runway conditions etc...

AZJ

AZJ, I see you live in Cincy. Do you know an FA by the name of Autumn?

AZJ - I also noticed you did relocate to CVG. I hope you're enjoying Covington, KY more than Memphis. I hope to see you DTW-based one day (living in Hawaii, of course, while commuting to DTW), flying A330s or B747s!