I am a NW Plat from 2001 miles who will not even qualify for silver this year since my NW miles in 2002 were less than 10,000. I did however fly close to 200,000 each with UA, AA and their respective partners.

Today I traveled on a same day return from GRR-DTW-JAX � I chose NW simply because it was the only airline operating the route without RJ�s. I now share these observations as someone who is now on the outside.

1) DTW is a really nice airport with the new terminal � great World Club as well
2) The seat pitch on the DC-9 in F is laughable
3) Have the FA�s gotten friendly in the last 18 months, or did I get lucky
4) The ground staff were there usual rude selves
5) Food is WAY better than it was � and defiantly better than the competition
6) WHY do these free F upgrades continue? On my return from JAX to DTW there were more PAX in F and Y!!!! Does anyone really think it makes me happy to fork over my $1,300 when the whole F cabin is on cheap cheap cheap fares?

There is no real value or point to this other than to offer some perspective on how ex NW PAX who are now with other airlines see the current state of your fav carrier.

1.) I agree, unless the tram is broken. All 3 clubs are quite nice actually.

2.) Laughable F pitch on a D9 is better than obscene coach pitch on an RJ.

3.)FA's do seem better these days. You can still get a skynazi on occasion, but the frequency seems to be radically decreasing.

4.)Ground staff are hit and miss, much more good than bad for me. The best was a GA in BDL who was trying to deal with a cancellation. He told a whole pack of non-rev's to "go away so I can get these people who paid for their tickets on their way". On UA that would have been, "hey all you non-revs come over here so I can fill up the F cabin"

5.)Food is better.... when you get it. Spinzels have not changed in quality in the last 18 months.

6.)Why the free upgrades? Because that is the primary reason why so many of us continue to fly NW domestic. Nobody who knows better buys an F ticket domestic anymore unless somebody else is paying the bill. If you have the stroke to repeatedly by domestic F tickets, you probably have the stroke to charter a G5 and go in style. In reality domestic these days its not first/economy, its 2nd class and 3rd class.

yummmm.

No fault of yours - but this is one of my REAL pet peeves - I keep reading about how no one will fly in F anymore since all of the F PAX are flying on charters or frac shares.

I fly one way - Paid F and about 500K miles per year and about $350,000 in Air attributable to me. I rarely fly with other people, so it is just me.

This would buy me on the order of 35 hours of G5 time - not exactly a real answer for 500K miles of travel - can quite get it in with only 35 hours

My JAX, point to point, would have charted at $23,200 for a mid size jet (we quoted it since I was originally going with 4 other people)

So I do have the "stroke" to pay F but how cant that REALLY be compared to spending $23,000?



[This message has been edited by B Watson (edited 01-22-2003).]

Watson, you raise an interesting point vis-a-vis the upgrade question. Northwest has been consistently moving their focus towards a LOAD based revenue model rather than a YIELD based revenue model ever since about mid-2000. In laymans terms, it simply means that they would rather fill a plane with lots of cheap-to-mid range fares than cherrypick the high revenue flyers (like yourself). Their First Class exists primarily for the purpose of enticing those regular, low revenue fliers to pick Northwest over the competition by offering them liberal upgrade possibilities. There are not many bells-and-whistles in domestic First, but the product is a step above the coach offering.

Quite frankly, I think NWA is the only one of the big-6 who have their revenue side of the house under control. They are making excellent progress in fleet renewal (read cost savings) that will give them a positive CASM-RASM spread before too long. Northwest is the blue-collar major, promising little and seeking to overdeliver.

Someone on this board called them once "Southwest of the long haul".

I, as a silver, could not be happier. I got upgraded 100% times last year. Food is nothing special. But, anyone can get a sandwich at Kroger's, right:-)

B Watson,

AA EXP, UA 1K, SQ PPS... and from Grand Rapids! I like the ring of that . Very refreshing - most FlyerTalkers would claim "AA EXP, UA 1K, SQ PPS; from SYD, HNL, LAX and LHR (but I really live in Toledo )". You deserve loads of credit for being real!

As the economic situation worsens, even more companies will tighten their travel budgets. As this happens, the numbers of mid-range fare flyers (also known as the $600-1000 tickets) will continue to decrease. These flyers will drop down to the $400-800 category and possibly end up on Southwest, ATA, AmericaWest, JetBlue AND Northwest!

The other majors will continue to discriminate against low-fare flyers (by offering only 1/2 Elite miles (DL), pulling out seats from the low fare buckets (CO), replacing planes with smaller ones (CO, US) and making upgrades harder and more expensive (UA, AA, DL, US)). As a result, NW may end up as the most popular 'major' airline, with 90+% load factors with many happy Eiltes flying in the not-so-stellar (but free to upgrade to) First Class product.

Watson-

Sorry to hit one of your hotbuttons. I was being semi-facetious.

So now I'll be really facetious. Things are a little slow for me this year, so gimme your $350,000 2003 travel money, and I'll buy us a nice piston twin, and I'll fly you around wherever you need to go. I can guarantee that you'll always get to sit in the front of the plane on my airline......

I could not agree more!

I was thinking over the Thanksgiving holiday (enjoying my upteenth ride in NW F 757 on a PLAT upgrade - with my knees banging into the seat back, climbing over the sleeping asile pax, parched because I have not been offered a drink in 90 minutes, hungary because there's no food on the 3 hour flight) - why don't domestic US airlines just admit this - do away with all the difference between coach and first except the seat. Sure I would not like it but at least it would be honest and fairly close to reality on NW and CO these days. Reduce F fares and only give free upgrades to PLATs. Encourage people to *pay* for that bigger seat if they want it - but not pay too much more because all you are really getting is a bigger seat. Similar to Eva's Evergreen Class but still better than most flights within Europe where biz class is the same size seat, just no one sitting in the middle.

At the same time NW should improve its WBC offering - where people are more inclined to pay full fare F - bump up the IFE and improve the service ethic.

Just musing here....

I would agree with most of your proposal Mopti, provided that an exception is made so that they fly WBC equipped aircraft to ANC from MSP and DTW, cause its a looooong haul.....