Changes to Worldperks program 2005
 

Here's the interesting part:

All paid fare classes eligible to earn WorldPerks miles on Northwest or any of our Elite Qualifying Airline Partners (Continental Airlines flights in Q, I, S, W, T, X, L classes; Delta Air Lines operated flights are excluded) to count towards your Elite Qualifying Segments (EQS) for the 2006 program year! Elite Qualifying Miles (EQM) required to achieve Elite status will remain the same as in 2004.


2005 changes


award travel changes

Looks like there really isnt anything to complain about - nothing like the status quo (although toss in a few SWUs and I would have been dancing through the aisles).

Gary

If that's really the full extent of the changes, that's fantastic news!

This should make segment runs a popular forum topic in '05 :)

Holy cow!

Did I just see WBC to Europe go to 100,000 miles, and Asia to 120,000?

This explain's CO's annoucement -- they had actually let the cat out of the bag.

Coupled with terrible standard award availability, this is an ugly devaluation of miles. :td: :td: :td:

Well, at least I have 24 hours to reconsider the RTW I just called on. I've really got to look at alternatives.

Steve

ugh. nice miles deval there. the segments change is a plus, I guess, but they upped the number of segments required per level. so it seems like a wash.

what's with CO Biz First being a "first class" award? was it always like that?

The new EQS system brings things more in line with other airlines. ^

Sooo glad to see that they're not taking away 100% EQMs or altering the EUA system in any way. Hurray!

That award chart is confusing as heck.

Looks like HA inter-island awards are going from 5k to 10k and US-Europe WBC awards are going from 80k to 100k. Ah, devaluation.

BF is already lumped in the First Class category. Not sure why.

Not to mention, standard award ticket in coach/business/first from US to Australia/NZ (a popular miles redemption route for FlyerTalkers) is now 100,000/150,000/200,000 miles respectively!! :(

Can't help from boiling over this, especially given that I had JUST ticketed the two RTW tickets moments earlier. This is such a giant take-away that it just gets me going.

I could deal with always needing to Rulebust because at least it was only 320,000 miles to Europe. And I gained flexibility.

But 100,000 miles as a standard award? That's more than UA or AA, and they both have decent standard availability! None of this "well, find this, and waitlist for that, and just hang in there" baloney. And believe me, while the new WBC seats are nice, they barely bootstrap NW into being competitive, much less superior.

There's gonna have to be a significant upside to elite bennies (like SWU's) for this not to kill NW's usefullness for me.

Steve

Awards are one thing of conccerned, but at least no change for within NA and coach to Europe.

Segments count and I can see lots of NA FFs swithching over to NW for that. If you do lots of short segments you should appreciate the increase value of your flying.

What about 150% EQMs for higher fares? No mention yet so can I expect no change to last years improvement?

Next few days we should hear about changes to benefits. Should be interesting.

This is definitely a good change for most flyers, but it would have been smart of them to make J/C/Z/P/F/Y/B segments count for 1.5 EQS, so that those few folks out there who currently qualify on segments wouldn't be negatively impacted. It doesn't affect me, though.

FC awards no change?
 

Weird. WBC awards to Europe/Asia will require more miles, but FC remains unchanged. How can that be? The new chart states that FC is valid on CO/KE only. I better book that FC trip (LAX-KUL) on MH soon.

I too was wondering about MH. And still no F awards on AF, apparently. :(

North/South Asia split
 

Nobody has mentioned the new split of Asia into North and South zones, like *A and OW. Not a good thing. "North Asia" consists of only Japan, Korea, Mongolia, so you'd think that's good, since South Asia is all the rest of Asia, other than Indian subcontinent.
BUT in order to get ANYWHERE in Asia on current Skyteam choices, you'd have to transit in NRT or ICN, thereby incurring a North/South Asia ticket, vs. a simple "within North Asia" or "within South Asia" ticket.
MH is still an option, though not mentioned on the chart. Hope it's still around! Also, China Southern might join at some point too. But nothing yet.
Here's the kicker:
"Flights within or between North Asia and South Asia on Korean Air require 50,000 miles for Coach,*70,000 miles for*Business and*100,000 miles for First Class."
Compare this to the old NW award levels of Y=20K, C=30K, and F=40K. Yuck! Especially on within North Asia--that means the 1hr15min flight ICN-NRT on KE would be 100,000 miles in F. Umm....think I'll pass!
Finally, there is no listing of intra-Asia award levels, other than on KE (and that's in the footnotes). Does that mean that NW/MH awards are still 20/30/40? :eek: I hope so!

Overall, it's a good news....
 

^ YES on 100% EQM on all NW and partner flights (excluding select CO and DL).
^ YES on 25K/50K/75K Elite requalify levels.
:td: NO on 10,000 miles for Interisland Hawaii Award. (previously 5000)
^ YES on Award levels to South Pacific, including Australia and New Zealand

:confused: Confused on the increased complexity of available awards. Granted it had to be done, but it's so confusing.

Overall, changes aren't too drastic! Thanks NW.

Jiburi '04

I don't think slippahs will like that hawaii award change though....but 5000 miles for travel within Hawaii was too cheap. It was good while it lasted.

Am I reading this correctly...ALL FARES COUNT TOWARDS EQS???
 

Northwest Airlines wants to serve all your travel needs for business or pleasure. That’s why, beginning January 1, 2005, we’re allowing all paid fare classes eligible to earn WorldPerks miles on Northwest or any of our Elite Qualifying Airline Partners (Continental Airlines flights in Q, I, S, W, T, X, L classes; Delta Air Lines operated flights are excluded) to count towards your Elite Qualifying Segments (EQS) for the 2006 program year! Elite Qualifying Miles (EQM) required to achieve Elite status will remain the same as in 2004. To earn Silver Elite status you must earn 30 EQS or 25,000 EQM, Gold Elite status needs 60 EQS or 50,000 EQM and to earn Platinum Elite status you must earn 100 EQS or 75,000 EQM.

Thanks for the recap... ;) The answer to your question is yes.

This is all very upsetting. I also see that it is no longer 35k miles to Brazil anymore. Now it's 50k! Same as UA. And to hell with all this rulebuster crap. The mile expense is so huge. So much loyalty, and I get a slap in the face with rediculous rulebusting.

I really hate this new "enhancement". I'd rather have the 50% EQM than this devaluation of the mile.

This is very major! :( While everyone was all so worried about a 50% EQM, NWA passes that up -- and worse happens!

This WP mile devaluation is around 20% maybe it seems. This looks similar to the last big devaluation when domestic coach awards went from 20k to 25k, and Asia coach awards went from 50k to 60k. Where will it end?

I think NWA should be very careful. Their award levels are not looking competative at all anymore. A valuable WP member could go elsewhere.

As a Platinum I still get plenty of bonus miles, but now they're not worth as much anyway. This is a *huge* change, and not even as much notice as the last big devaluation.

I would have to disagree with you, but that mainly is due to the fact that I use WP more for getting my first class upgrades than for free travel (in fact, I have NEVER booked a free ticket with all my miles because free ticket = no EQM and my wife is too afraid to fly). I guess viewing the changes needs to be in the perspective of what you think the greatest benefit of WP is - free travel or better service on paid travel. They need to make money and if you think about it the increased fuel costs, increased demand, and diminished capacity on A330 routes would require some kind of increase.

Now if they would just allow a third upgrade category for upgrading Int'l from any fare for elites then I would be really happy...otherwise Im content!

Gary

Can someone please explain this to me? :mad:

Why is NW listing the First Class awards as:
* Valid on Continental Business First or Korean Air First Class
only??

What happened to all the other skyteam partners?

You betcha that I'm steaming over this change. :mad: 5k awards were the best bang for your mile and now it's gone. Hope UA will keep their 5k award on AQ. That would at least allow for some airline to maintain a reasonable award within the islands.

^^^ for NO 50% EQM on cheaper fares, however.

aloha

Sure, the changes are worse for some people. Fact stands is it's a devaluation to the mile. It's clear NW is trying to actually sell more of the FC and BC seats, and if they're going to give them away for free, then we'll have to pay a higher mile price for them.

But I always have believe NW is not losing money on these award tickets. If I'm able to get an award ticket on a NW flight, then NW must have thought it was not going to be able to sell that seat for money. Going along on a ride in a seat, that was not going to be sold anyway, is hardly costing anyone much.

I like the eqms, but hate the new reward charts. Very serious degrading of my miles. Does anyone know if rewards booked this year (for next year) are at the old or new levels?

I'd give back the eqms on all segments, for the old reward chart! I think NW management has been reading about how we liked the 35k rewards to SA!

jiburi,

I hope you do realize the miles for awards to Australia/NZ will be going up by 20k/40k/60k starting on March 1, 2005.
Your "thumbs up" is indicating you're actually glad to see the increase. ;)

Well, if all fares count towards EQS, it'll be cheaper for retirees like myself to hang on to elite status. In theory, I would only need 7.5x (CMH-DTW-ORD) same-day returns at $78 a pop to reach silver, provided current fare offerings remain the same. In EQMs, that would only get me to 15k. Doesn't seem right, but I'll take it.
:)

As long as you're not trying to go anywhere on an award ticket...

I call it a mixed bag, the pros (100% EQM) equal the big bump-ups in mileage requirements for award travel/upgrades. Some of the increases in mileage are quite hefty for WBC:
a 25% increase to Europe (80 to 100K)
a 33% increase to Asia (90 to 120K)
a 50% increase from coach to WBC to Europe (20 to 30K)
a 20% increase from coach to WBC to Asia (25 to 30K)

I wouldn't expect any better benefits for elite members this year compared to the last, at least for international travel. Joining the Skyteam probably pushed NWA to mileage increases. So, I guess that improved access to the world now has a slightly higher price.

Is Northwest seeking the Freddie for "least logically organized award data?"

It almost makes you wonder if they randomized the information to make it harder to decipher the changes. How about...alphabetizing the information?

You make an excellent point. I will make Platinum this year on EQMs and there will be only two EQS in that total (both of which could arguably be regarded as errors). Since all of my flights involve going through a hub, this could prove to be a potentially advantageous option. Hmmm.....

I have been flying and playing the Award chart game since the birth of the frequent flyer programs. This one needs a lawyer to untangle.

Im I reading this correctly? There are no changes in Domestic Awards (US49)???

Except that the A330's are reducing their fuel costs, and increasing the number of WBC seats available as compared to the DC-10's they are replacing.

Steve

100% EQMs on all fares ?
 

Hi y'all,

Several folks have mentioned one of the plusses of this announcement being 100% EQM for all fares. I've read the NW webpage several times and I don't see this listed. It mentions changes to earning EQS and that the EQMs needed to qualify for Elite remain the same (I was worried 'bout that one). Nothing about earning EQMs.

Thanks
Steve

I just called the Plat line and was told that award reservations already booked this year for next year would be for the original amount. But then again the person I spoke to was not aware of ANY changes to the program. ;)
We will be doing IND to BKK in WBC, in standard/rule buster. For us it would mean a lot of extra miles....

This increase is the one which irritates me the most. Perhaps 140k FC was too good to last, but up 60k to 200k? :mad:

With the new award chart, this really has me thinking at looking at other carriers (specifically AA based on my travel patterns). This is a major devaluation in mileage. It's bad enough the USD has devaluated significantly over the past few years between the Bush deficit and the trade deficit -- but that's another topic.

Standard WBC to Europe at 100k, yet FC (BusinessFirst) is still 100k? I suppose the day I can actually get a BF award ticket is the day h3ll freezes over ;)

WBC is a nice product (just did WBC London-Detroit yesterday on a revenue ticket), but it could use improvement to stay competitive with other carriers.

Best,

SDF_Traveler

P.S. Perhaps CO can't afford to give away any BF seats with their advertising expenses in London; one can't help to notice the CO and BusinessFirst advertising which is plastered around Victoria Station and on the Gatwick Express -- everytime I'm in London (once a month, or more) I seem to notice even more advertising.

It's not 100% EQM on all fares. EQM accural does not change. Somehow this is supposedly a positive change when in fact, there hasn't been a change.

This little note is disturbing:
So SEA-NW-HNL-HA-OGG will require 45000 miles if one can't find availability on NW/CO/DL flights?

You're right. I might have jumped the gun. The words still are not clear on the 100% EQM. To me, a change from 100% EQM would be significant enough that I believe it would have been included in this announcement if there was a planned change in this policy. It does state "Here are several important changes that may affect you in 2005...with no mention of 100% EQM change. I am optimistic that there is no change for 2005.

Jiburi '04

EQM and AUS Awards?
 

I have a question on both the EQMs and Australia awards:

If CO/NWA/DL – and to a greater extent SkyTeam are in an alliance how can there be a noticeable imbalance in policy. The CO award to AUS is 80K/105K/135K via Quantas and while I understand that the airlines negotiate different contracts, a 65K mileage difference for FC to AUS seems oddly out of sync.

Furthermore, if NWA awards full elite credit on their flights what is to stop me, a CO Plat, from jumping ship to NWA for the coming year? Chances are that I will not receive a comp, but if NWA will continue to offer 100% EQMs I see very little to loose. Once more the imbalance seems a little more than what I would expect from two airlines in a close alliance.

Of course CO may choose to further enhance OnePass (i.e. axing 100 EQM via co.com) but I don’t see them doing away with the EQM rhubarb. I dunno, it just seems that many mixed fare passengers as myself are going to jump ship.

Comments?

This is scary! They do not mention the 100% EQM, which indicates that there might be possibility for LTK fare to earn 50% EQM. However, even this happens, I do hope NW to come at least as low as CO to keep 100% on all paid fares booked on nwa.com. About the EQS stuff, sounds like that I have to make double or triple connections everytime I fly next year.

Thanks god I booked the BWI-SYD trip one month ago for 80000 miles, which will cost 100000 now. This is clearly a disadvantage as compared to the UA award chart. Also, they do not lower the mileage requirement to Africa, very sad!

They do not mention intra Asia award requirements on NW but do mention that intra Asia on CO will require 25000 miles. I hope they keep the original 20K requirements for travel on NW metal--my friend and I are considering booking a PEK-SIN using his parents' miles (they came to US once and accrued 22000 miles in each of their accounts)

Another thing that I am concerned does not happen--increasing award requirements for travel to Alaska; but within Hawaii trip for 10K is definitely a :td:

Basically, there is nothing beneficial to passengers in the change of award travel. Only increased mileage requirement but no decreased mileage requirement happens---what are they thinking about?

Hawaii is still a bargain at 35,000 to 45,000 miles.
 

It's still better than rulebusting. Besides, if you live along the west coast, you also have variety of flight option if you connect via Alaska Airline flight with no additional miles. There are hawaiian gateway from Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Los Angeles and soon Anchorage.

From west coast, 35,000 to 45,000 miles for award travel to Hawaii is still reasonable. From East Coast, Canada, Mexico, Central America and Alaska, I think that's still a steal. A travel from New York is about 5000 miles each way. For such an award traveling that distance is an incredible value at both 35,000 or 45,000 miles.

One additional footnote. Northwest will not charge you for interisland flight segment if it is part of an international award. So if you wanted to fly to Japan, via Maui from Seattle and needed to connect to Honolulu few days later for Japan, there is no mileage deduction for the interisland flight. The award is still 60,000 on economy ticket.

SEA-OGG-HNL-NRT-SEA

Jiburi '04

The way I read this is that 2004 features remain unchanged with the following changes. 50% EQM on other airline flights, 50% EQM bonus on high fares and BC/FC fares.

Today are the big changes: on the plus side the EQS and the negative side the increase award rates.