Um... everything is better than rulebusting. Rulebusting involves using more miles for fewer restrictions. If you set your standards low enough, everything can still be better than XXX. "Well, it's good because at least it doesn't cost 1 million miles."

So how do I get to Hilo from Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Los Angeles and soon Anchorage with "no additional miles"?

Value is subjective. You might think it's an 'incredible value' while I may think it's an 'incredible rip-off'. What is objective is a comparison of award levels with those of competing programs.

UA charges 60K/90K/120K for awards from North America to Australia, so I fail to see how NW charging 100K/150K/200K deserves a YES with a thumbs up.

I think you'll see a lot of people jumping ship over to NW. I don't know if this is a good or bad thing, but there'll be an influx of elites to NW. Might be a smart move for NW to generate more customer loyalty.

I always had trouble with booking award travel on NW, that why I was reluctant to use my WP number when I first started using NW.

Either way, from the perspective of a newer NW elite, aside from the older aircraft and the lack of many of the amnities other airlines have at their hubs that MEM doesn't have, NW is still a quality product and I think this is a positive thing. ^

keithguy,

Has that not always been the case (additional miles once you get to HNL)? If not, I've been ripped off.

For what it's worth, you can get to KOA for 35K miles on the 757 SEA-OGG-KOA-SEA. Not Hilo, but only 90 minutes or so. My experiences has been that there's TONS of standard availability on that flight, but maybe that's changing.

No change of 100% EQM policy in the mileage accrual page
 

We've all been focusing on the "2005 change" page, the mileage accrual page has only slight changed, with the EQS policy change. http://www.nwa.com/freqfly/earn/airfl.shtml

NW and NW Airlink...

Elite Qualifying Fare Classes
Elite Qualifying Miles at 150%: P, F, J, C, Z, Y, B
Elite Qualifying Miles at 100%: M, H, Q, V, L, T, K
Elite Qualifying Segments: P, F, J, C, Z, Y, B (M, H, Q, V, L, T, K effective January 1, 2005

I think this supports my idea that there is no change planned on EQM for January 1, 2005.

Jiburi '04

I'd be surprised if there are really that many core elites on segments.

And few people are going to come to NW, which now has the worst award redemption based on cost, combined with the industry's worst standard award redemption opportunities. Only CO charges as much for a business-class ticket to Europe, and they also offer no middle seats in business class (and a bit higher standard of service).

Northwest, OTOH, is the airline that offers a fruit plate -- a small fruit plate! -- to its WBC passengers arriving into the US after the long haul from Asia. To cut costs, okay, fine. We'll live.

But to slash costs and service and raise rates, well, it sets NW well back from the competition. Unless they whip out some benefits to try and 'give back' some of what they've taken, this is just a big step downhill.

Steve

Jiburi,
Good find! ^

No, not at all.

A few months ago, I booked ...SEA-NW-HNL-HA-KOA-HA-HNL-CO-LAX... for the 35K, even with a stopover in HNL (final destination was KOA).

doh. I thought that's how it should have worked, but the phone agents had me convinced that it was supposed to be two awards. Oh well.

I think KE and AF are the only ST partners with real int'l F. But we're not allowed to book AF F awards for some reason. NW already considered CO BF as an F award. That's not new.

Burn them while they're hot!
 

Well this change has inspired me to start using the meager amount of miles in my account. I just booked a South American trip for the old 35k mile award, and will look to burn another 35k trip by the end of the week. I'll earn another 35k by the end of the year and hope to spend that as well! :)

After several years of buying whatever's cheapest to Europe and just barely making Silver each year on NW, I was finally induced to spend most of my money at NW after flying WBC on an award ticket this year. I will even make Gold this year and was thinking of going for Plat because of the lounge access.

But now, now they just lost me, I think. I'm just not willing to use 100,000 miles for WBC when I can fly twice to Europe for that amount. Coupled with the hoops I have to go through to get any award seat to Europe, this devaluation of miles discourages me from spending more to fly NW. I'll go back to whatever's cheapest and try to make Silver each year if I come close, but I'm not going to worry about it. I'm pretty sick of Spinzels anyway.

I wish the segment rule would apply retroactively for this year. It would save me from maybe taking a mileage run, though frankly I'm a bit confused as to how to get a good routing.

As for the increased mileage awards, I'm very disappointed. There's no way around how unfortunate this is. Especially Australia. We don't have direct service like *A or OneWorld so I have suffered through a routing like MSN-MSP-EWR-DXB-KUL-MEL just to get there, and now they go and raise the miles required to do so and that's higher than what the competiting alliances offer and they have MUCH better and more direct routings.

Wow- just noticed the increase in miles to 150K for biz from 110K. And the timing is awful, since I was planning on booking something in May or June for April 2006 travel. I certainly knew this was a possibility, but this is a pretty steep increase. NWA will probably justify this by saying that they offer many more mileage earning promotions than most competitors...

This would be ok only if they increase availability....

A question
 

Could anyone answer the question:

Will the mileage increase for WBC award take effect for trips BOOKED after March 1, 2005?

In the other words, if I BOOK these trips BY March 1, 2005 for future travel, does the mileage required stay same as current level?

The mileage increase will take effect on March 1, 2005 itself.

So, if you book a WBC award ticket to Asia on February 28, 2005 for travel on August 1, 2005, your mileage required is 90k.

That would be IF ... and thats a big IF there are award seats still available...

redundant post

Exactly - NWA WBC award availability sucks. It is time for me to look at other options -- I have been holding out with NW - but UA offers so many better options, I think it is time to make the change.

Same yearly statements. Some stay, some go, others come here. The point is that, in general, the grass is not always greener elsewhere. For me award availability works. I get the flights I want, I get the upgrades to WBC I want.

Ua?
 

This is the last straw.

I am basically out of here, probably.

UA has nonstops to China (which save a lot of time) and has better standard award availability.

You can upgrade from almost any fare to Business Class. And it is fairly easy to upgrade (NW's international upgrade, even if you buy expensive fares and use miles, is a true pain).

On top of that, now NW requires 30,000 miles more than UA to buy standard WBC award to Asia? :confused: :confused: :confused:

(Assuming there IS standard award, a big IF as thezipper correctly indicated.)

Not to mention that 20,000 miles Coach/30,000 miles WBC award within Asia are gone. Now it is 50,000 miles Coach/70,000 miles Business on KE.

It will be sad to leave NW and switch to UA after flying NW exclusively for more than a decade. But for folks in my position, I am afraid that it is a no-brainer. Ironically, I will become a NW Plat for the first time next month. Talk about wasted opportunity other than securing a status comp of Premier Executive from UA. :td: But I can not dispute the cold facts........

I'm pretty stunned at this, maybe I'm too naive and should have expected this.

What an incredible devaluation of miles.

I've just given up trying to get upgradeable tix to the US over Christmas and will be flying Y.

The SO and I just purchased enough flights to make Platinum over Christmas and now this happens.

For domestic US travel, NW's great. Huge upgrade possibilities, great agents, competitive prices in all the markets I've travelled in. Doesn't look like they've altered the US domestic awards.

But NW is clearly not geared to the international traveler. I know this is old news to many of you, but it's really just hit me. The int'l upgrading policy is a joke, the award availability is crap, the lack of integration with KLM is laughable. This latest round of devaluations seems clearly aimed to keep NW flyers in the CONUS!

For the first time in 10 years I'm going to seriously consider moving my business elsewhere.

You are absolutely correct. Look at Delta.........

For me NWA no longer offers what I want..... and it is All About Me anyway

All I can say is to book your awards as quick as possible! At least you'll get some play out of them. I had no problems booking last night for May flights.

Absolutely. I will have about 260,000 miles in bank by March 1, 2005 and hopefully will find some additional 10,000 miles either by WP Visa or a mini MR to grab 3 WBC awards to Asia before that dreaded deadline.

The pain is, some combined 110,000 miles in varioud accounts for members of my family won't be much useful. But, we will live with that.

It is bad that I already have 42,000 EQMs' trips booked for first few months of 2005. So the switching to UA won't happen until 2006. But, UA may also increase the award mileage requirement for business class by then :D :D :D

At this point, in light of new NW award chart, I am afraid that next time when I buy an $8,000 J fare to Japan, the airline probably won't be NW.

What about MH? I know people have redeemed awards on their F cabins in the past. :(

Anyway, NW really needs to adjust this new chart of theirs. A standard award from US to Asia now takes 120,000 miles in WBC, but it says FC has 'No Change'. Am I the only idiot that can see the current FC awards also going for 120,000 miles? Has NW valued their WBC at the SAME level as KE First?

MH F was available, and hopefully still will be. But it's not SkyTeam, so I didn't count it.

This enhancement hurts.

I have been hoarding miles for trips to Brazi, Australia, Tahiti and Singapore with the gpapadop family.

It looks to me that this enhancements will cost me mucho miles....that it hurts.

I am taking these steps...No more hoarding....NO MAS!!!!!!
shifting all credit card activity to Starwood AMEX (and potentially to the Diners Club), canceling my NW Platinum Visa, keeping my no fee NW Worldperks visa for the odd place that has no AMEX.

Suggestions on plenty of reward availability dates to Brazil and Singapore are very welcome! Australia and Tahiti were just taken out of the dream trips, thanks a lot Northwest for the loyalty shown to you over the years over picking you instead of Spirit to my frequent trips to Florida...oh yes, one more change, spirit will be greatly considered from now on and will be likely be picked, why pay NW a premium for a few more freaking miles on a super devalue mode and awful availability too!!!

Thanks FT for allowing me to vent :mad:

where did you see that? i read the changes specifically with that award in mind, but didn't find any bad news (the ke award hike doesn't really affect me.)

Although "Within Asia" category is not listed, it doesn't mean it's no longer offered by WorldPerks.
I believe the webpage only highlights "changes" to the award chart.

Oh.... That is good news! (IF YOU ARE CORRECT AND I AM SLOOPY----I HOPE SO)

Now I can make some good use of various WP accounts of my family members with balances ranging from 20k to 40k :) :)

If you want to book award tickets to Brazil, do so before January 1st. I've booked 3 already for 105k. After January 1st, it'll take 150k.

Burn and Bail
 

So much for my loyalty. I am with BOS-NWA. I will be burning my 350K in WP miles and then leveraging my Plat status for a comp on UA. These new award charts are insulting. Have they lost their colllective minds up there Minnesota with regards to the Australia/New Zealand chart?

No more (paid) Redtail for me. :mad:

Jaimito's right. I've loaded up on SCL tix. Better still for GIG and GRU book on CO if you can and colonize their cabins while the differential still exists in our favor. You had to figure this was coming with recent SkyTeam partner activity: or what snake would call CO's recent "enhancements" to this "Southern South America" routing together with DL's earlier inflation to 50k. In my view the 35k awards were the best bang-for-buck in the WP system. And the increase in WBC to Europe hurts: those were a good deal. So, two strikes on my account.

But.... it's not all bad. Have you guys noticed the appearance of a new 20,000 mile award from Mexico to "Northern South America:" I believe that mirrors CO OP policy although maybe we can get the awards more easily through WP. For those of us within driving range of airports like HMO - not much further than PHX from my house - this is really good news. Now we can redeem 20k awards to LIM and CCS, or 40k in J! I'll let you know how this goes when I attempt it on January 1st :p

For years I used to state Delta had one of the best FF values, at only 30k miles for US48-Hawaii. Now I'd say UA/Star with 60k/90k/120k to the South Pacific and Australia might be number one. Does anyone know if they've announced 2005 plans (ie. could they be announcing any changes soon)?

Jeff

If I book an award for next July now and want to change the dates later (after March 1), will I be asked for the difference between the old and new prices?

NW has narrowed our choices.
 

I agree, I think NW’s knee jerk reaction to follow suit with other airlines that have diluted their FF programs is a bad call.
We now have a choice of earning great (albeit abysmally diluted) miles, being treated relatively nice by the majority of NW personnel and having the best F (domestic) upgrade opportunity of any other top 3 or 4. (I am at 100% myself)
Or:
Change over to another airline that offers a more advantageous/liberal FF program and be content sitting C more often.

Interesting choice, instant gratification of sitting in F or better chances of using your miles for the seats you want and when you want.

I will wait till the first few months before I do anything drastic.

Burn and Bail...NOT!
 

I too think some of you might be taking actions too soon to bail. Most airlines haven't announced plans for 2005 yet, and it seems probable that devaluation of miles may be forthcoming for the others, if not by bankruptcy, then by adjustments to its costs. If it doesn't happen this year, it might happen the next. Others will eventually make their adjustments. True, mileage required for some of your dreams might be increasing, but so is the cost of travel.

I'm staying on board Northwest.

Jiburi

huh? from my perspective, the long term trend seems stable if not downward in real terms.

Well, all I have to say it thank goodness I left NWA this year! I would have really, really screwed especially considering the amount of miles i have collected on UA this year (400'000 with the Early Bird).

2005 changes may have not yet been announced at other airlines (such as UA), but I am sure that UA would not do changes as drastic as this. 120'000 miles for WBC to Asia? In the NEW World Business Class? The problematic one?

I can fly First class on ANA/Asiana/SQ/United for the same amount of miles.

Why would I be loyal to NWA?