gleff

Spend $50k on the card you'd have 105k Asiana miles. Even if the card went away you could still top off from other programs...

mexxem

just great work.

Guava

Thanks for this info, this is good to know. It is a little disturbing given the social context in the United States but those are the rules.

Guava

The SPG AMEX seems to be having some issues, see this thread here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/starw...able-keep.html

If you don't already have this card, and just apply now, your credit limit will likely be miniscule to an unuseable amount.

TimelyTim

This is really impressive.

Problem is, I'm one of those people who doesn't spend enough to warrant paying an annual fee. Which cards are best for me, then?

Are the miles offered on no-fee cards just not that great? Would I be better off finding a simple cash back card?

Guava

That's not a problem, see this thread here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...-shipping.html



The Presidential $1 coin solution definitely takes care of the lack of spending/purchase issue that you had since you can easily put in thousands of $ / month with that.

In other cases, annual fee is easily recuperated by annual recurring freebies the CC give you. For example, the Marriott Signature VISA gives you Category 5 free stay at a Marriott hotel. This certificate is good at many pricy hotels such as in Manhattan, New York City, which definitely more than pays for the $65 annual fee. The Asiana Bank of America AMEX gives you 10,000 miles discount coupon every year + a statement credit of $100, also annually so that when you redeem award tickets through Asiana, the $100 will cover parts if not all the taxes and fees charged in such a reservation. This also more than pays for the $99 annual fee. So the bottom line is you don't necessarily have to limit yourself to cards with no annual fees so long as the tangible benefits given by the card to you can be easily measured and quantifiable to justify the annual fee. Both examples given above demonstrate how those pay backs work, not to mention there are often generous sign up bonus as well and cards that offer waiver of annual fee in the first year or two.

If all of the above seems too complicate to you, don't worry. I can recommend you to look at two annual fee free CC:

1) Charles Schwab 2% cash back VISA

2) Hilton HHonors American Express


Charles Schwab 2% cash back is a great all purpose card. The fact it is a VISA means it's widely accepted, with the exception of Costco, which only takes AMEX. It also has no foreign transaction fee, which is great when you travel abroad. There is a saying, cash is king. In the frequent flyer world, with all the talks about miles & points, ironically, cash is becoming more and more popular. This is a great card to keep in your pocket.

Hilton HHonors AMEX offers special bonus when you spend on qualifying everyday purchases such as groceries, gas, pharmaceuticals, telephone, internet, cable TV and cell phone. The 6 HH pts per $ spent on these categories generally equals to about 2~3 miles / $ spent, which is one of the best return ratio for any existing U.S. CC, notwithstanding the teaser and temporarily promos on certain Citi cards. It is fee free also, which means it's a great companion card to Charles Schwab 2% cash back VISA. Spend your everyday purchases on your HH AMEX while everything else, get them in the form of cash back, which you can save and earn interest or invest.

stimpy

Gleff, I was surprised to see you say that the best thing about the Starwood Amex is the mileage partners? If you are a Starwood Platinum member, the best use of Starpoints is for luxury experiences at Starwood hotels. As a Platinum member you get fantastic upgrades, Club access, etc. The value per Starpoint is far, far, higher than anything you can get with miles.

In general, you have to approach these cards in completely different ways if you have elite status in the program or not.

rfrost

I just wanted to add my thanks. This is a terrific up-to-date summary and is tremendously helpful.

pinniped

Even without any meaningful SPG elite status, using the points at the hotels is still where the real value is. I'm SPG Gold (a pseudo-elite level, much like MR or HH Silver), so I just spend an extra 1,500 points per night and I can usually confirm a very nice upgrade at booking-time.

I can understand an occasional airline mile conversion to top-off for an award, but even then I'd only do it after exploring all other options. In some cases, airlines will sell you the miles directly for less than 1 Starpoint is worth.

Guava

- Platinum upgrade is far from a guaranteed benefit
- In the event of an upgrade, SPG doesn't guarantee what kind of upgrade you'll get
- In order to enjoy "luxury experiences" at Starwood hotels, you often need to stay at Category 6 & 7 hotels, which can be extremly expensive point wise. Would you fork 90,000 SPG points for just the most basic room type at the W Maldives?
- From a value standpoint, your proposition doesn't seem to apply at most SPG properties unless they are Cat. 6 & 7. If so, use of SPG points at such SPG hotels can be rather poor value from a strictly mathematical perspective. For example, St. Regis Bora Bora starts at 60,000 SPG points / night and the room can be bought at an average rate of $590 / night. The return per 1 SPG point = less than $0.01
- High end SPG properties rarely ever have any Club lounges, you'll find those in mid-range properties who are often nothing extraordinary or just your standard business hotels in cities and in any case, this access is limited to Sheraton and Westin properties only. Most of the high end properties are neither Westin or Sheraton.
- SPG points to miles can offer great potential value and needed diversification in order to get to where you want to go in comfort. It may or may not be more valuable but the fact this option is available while it isn't at another FFP or hotel loyalty program is indeed a good differentiation
- The best use of SPG points seem to be for hotels & resorts that are well priced for their rated categories and these tend to be those Cat. 5 hotels and below. The price of luxury at SPG hotels comes at a cost that is often unreasonably more expensive than paying cash straight


I don't agree. In general, whether you have elite status or not make little impact on whether the CC fits your needs. Some good CC are inherently detached from mileage programs. In others, the elite benefits only offer very little incremental benefits. If you are a Platinum member with SPG and generate a lot of SPG points through your regular SPG hotel activity, do you really gain a lot of incremental benefits from your SPG AMEX activity? Or could you stand to benefit from some diversification, more than cumulation of just more SPG points? I use two primary mileage earning cards, neither of them has anything to do with BD, my primary FFP. One is the Asiana AMEX discussed here. The other is one that I use seasonally, about 1/4 ~1/3 time of the year where all purchases give 5 miles per $ spent on a major Oneworld FFP (the rest of the time, about 2.5 miles / $). Reason is simple. I do not need any more BD miles than I already have.

al613

This is a new one. Very interesting. If a secret, could you PM?
P.S. Or may be its DC and BA? Still does not add to 5/$.

Guava

Sorry, I should add, the membership is no longer open to the public. Very few people on FT has this card and I prefer not to discuss about it since you can no longer apply for it. It's issued by a major U.S. bank but the requirements were fairly strict, comparable to AMEX Centurion card.

pinniped

I agree with a lot of Guava's point about SPG. The value-per-point sweet spot of SPG is not the very top end, although the uniqueness/character of those properties is something that does set the program apart from MR and HH.

The sweet spots in SPG are well-planned mid-category stays in high-demand periods, with the 1500 point category upgrade where applicable.

Oktoberfest, NYC Marathon, Berlin Marathon, Rose Bowl, spring break in Puerto Vallarta - in all of these cases, I was able to get the "prime" hotel redeeming SPG points, in all cases except the Westin Pasadena using the 1500 point upgrade to either get a suite or a confirmed Club Level room.

I find it hard to get high value out of Starwood at the luxury properties. But...if I was a Plat sitting on a half-million points, I'd probably redeem anyway...just like I'm willing to burn air miles on J/F seats even when cheap Y paid seats are obtainable.

dayone

Citibank.

GetawaysRus

QUOTE - In order to enjoy "luxury experiences" at Starwood hotels, you often need to stay at Category 6 & 7 hotels, which can be extremly expensive point wise. Would you fork 90,000 SPG points for just the most basic room type at the W Maldives?


Many Starwood properties offer a "Points + Cash" option. Although I'm not familiar with W Maldives, I do think these offer reasonable value at high end (Cat 6 & 7) properites in Europe. I think it's better to spend some cash (in additon to a moderate number of points) than fork over that huge number of points.