Does anybody know of a resource which compares hotel programs by the award received for the revenue dollars spent?

I have been Diamond gold passport at Hyatt for years, and was recently comped platinum status at Starwood. A cursory glance at the programs tells me I have to spend $4,000 revenue at starwood to get one night at Sheraton or Westin Maui. In the Hyatt program, I only have to spend $2300 for the much better HR Maui.

Welcome to FlyerTalk!

FWIW, I usually take other's analyses on these things with a grain of salt, because the comparison is often very individualized. That aside, I don't know off hand of a chart anywhere that does a bare bones comparison. I think it'd be awfully tricky.

The big hotel programs talked about here most often seem to be Starwood and Hilton HHonors. I am an HHonors die hard because of the credit cards and the extensive inventory of properties, as well as the ability to transfer miles to points. Others are Starwood diehards because of their excellent credit card (Amex), the availability of award stays, and the ability to transfer points to miles.

Just that information alone is enough to confuse the comparison issue: points to miles, miles to points, credit card spending as a factor in earnings. And if you're using your credit card at the properties, that rakes in even more points which is very important to your comparison.

And on the redemption side, you should be aware of the HHonors VIP awards which discount a 6 night stay. 40K points per night at Hilton Hawaii resorts, but 6 nights is only 175K or <30K per night.

You could probably do your own comparison in a few hours. If you do so, please post your results. I, for one, am always interested in seeing a new angle on things.


[This message has been edited by Rut Dog (edited 07-19-2003).]

I am not sure of your math in the "$4,000 to get 12,000 Starpoints" comment. Many times their is a 500 pt bonus for online sign ups and AMEX offers 500-1000 bonus starpoints for your 1st 6 stay using their card. So there are many was to increase your points therefore reducing that $4,000 spendind threshold. But i agree that it is an individual comparision skewed by each to fit their preference. I hate Hilton because they have capacity controls for beach properties in the summer and Ski prop in the winter. Whats the point to earning points if you cant stay where you want, when you want to do it. Plus there two Hawaii properties are a joke.( you cant even compare to Starwood or Hyatt).

My humble opinion.

These are common complaints. However, the Hilton capacity restrictions can often be overidden by individual hotel management. I have never been unable to get an award room on a given date in a given city, despite blackouts. Sometimes I have to take a second or third choice property, but I've always gotten a room.

That said, I haven't done much "resorting" with Hilton, and so when you are seeking one particular property in high season for that area, it could prove quite difficult. On the other hand, I recently booked a 6 night stay at a Pointe Hilton Phoenix resort with minimal effort.

And I can't compare Hilton Hawaii with any other (never been to any), but I do know there are many, many satisfied customers that post frequently in the Hilton forum. Hawaii, Cabo, Phoenix, Cancun, Hilton Head, Conrad Singapore, Hong Kong, Paris, London... But I digress.

I'm merely trying to show both sides of the issue, and I have no interest in convincing anyone to switch to HH from SPG or any other program. In fact, in light of capacity control, please, do stay in another program.

Happy comparing.

The way you phrase your question assumes that there's a constant ratio of dollars spent per the value of the night awarded. In some hotel programs it may be closer to constant but in most it's far from it.

For example, you mentioned Hyatt. You didn't specify which night of the week. And you didn't specify how often in which months you might stay at Hyatts.

If you only stay at a Hyatt once every 4 months, you don't qualify for any promotions, so you're probably right. But if you stay twice during the current Faster Free Nights promotion, you get a free night for every two paid ones. Except the free night must be a weekend night (and only redeemable for a few months). So if you need a weekend night, it's of much higher value than if you can't possibly use a weekend night, in which case it's of no value. By extension, if you can make great use of FFN, then that makes Hyatt by far the greatest earning ratio (but ONLY WHEN you're using FFN).

Then there's the fact that the availabilty of bonus offers differs by ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE between different programs. And the publicizing of those bonus programs differs a lot too. So, for example, if you are willing to spend enough time reading FlyerTalk to learn about Priority Club's simultaneous 8600..8604 promos where you can earn 55000 bonus point (not counting the platry regular points you earn for one-night stays) for 10 stays, which can be redeemed for 5 nights at many Holiday Inn Expresses, or 2 nights at better Holiday Inns, or I don't know how many nights at their even higher-end properties, AND you have been able to stay 10 nights at Priority Club properties during the current promo period (ending Aug 15), then who cares how much you regularly earn at Priority Club hotels (because reading deeper in Flyer Talk you'll see they keep running promos like this over and over).

But it also gets more complicated depending on whether you're also after miles (and with which airline[s]) or care not a single bit about that. Because at Holiday Inn or Express you earn paltry per-dollar-spent points or paltry per-dollar-spent miles with domestic airlines, but for example earn 500 miles per stay with BA among other international airlines, and in combination with the above points promo you can earn double miles in their "25000" promotion at the same time! So this is a super value if you need miles in such a program on top of getting free hotel nights, but not as great a value if you have no use for any of the mileage programs at which you earn the high per-stay rate.

Similarly, the Hitlon HHonors program gives you both miles and points for each stay (normally, not only during promos), while Starwood and Hyatt give you only one or the other, so again it's hard to compare without knowing your exact situation. (Priority Club is also only miles or only points OTHER THAN for the bonuses which you're likely to only find out about on FlyerTalk.)

Meanwhile, all the math you can do about ratios doesn't mean much if you can't figure out a way to factor award availability into the ratio, since award availability differs between the different programs quite a bit (but, again, not in a way that can be distilled into a single number that works for everyone, since some programs have better award availability in some locations than others, or on some days of the week than others, or in some of their brands than others, or in some regions or countries than others).

I am both a Hilton Diamond and a Starwood Platinum member, a few years ago I was also a Marriott upper tier member, but do not have much experience with Hyatt. If I have discovered one common fiber between the loyalty programs that I am a member of: it is they do not reciprocate the loyalty I show them. You can�t compare one program to another because the awards you are saving for: could and probably will be changed before you get to use them. In the past few months Hilton raised the points required to use some of its most popular awards by fifty percent and more. They eliminated some of the most economical awards with absolutely no notice. Starwood made significant changes in its program (although not as severe as Hilton) just recently as well. I left the Marriott program several years ago when they changed the point level for the award I was saving for; by forty percent. The "point" I am trying to make is unless you plan on using the awards in the very near term no comparison can be made between programs because none of us know what the future will hold and what program will do.

I have found one program that I have begun to implement this year that is working and providing instant rewards. I now book my hotel stays thru discounters like Priceline and am taking the money I save as my reward. I have discovered that rooms in hotels I once paid $120 per night: for now cost $40. To figure out how much I save does not take any math genius. Saving $80 per night for fifty nights a year puts $4,000 in my pocket. With Hilton and Starwood after deducting for the taxes I would get points on about $100 per stay. Being a Diamond and with some promotions I could get about 20 points per dollar after fifty nights I may get 100,000 points. Starwood as a Platinum, five points per dollar might be a stretch but for arguments sake, lets say you get 25,000 points in Starwoods program.

If you wish to utilize the Hawaii comparison charts as listed above, than Hilton and Starwood are about equal at offering approximately two and one half nights each. How many nights do you think you can get with $4,000 dollars however? How many more with Priceline rates?

If your boss is paying the room there is no reason not to take the extra perks, but for personal stays. Shopping around is the best program of all! Last year I told everyone I knew how great the Hilton program was and now they are asking me how to use the orphan points they have accrued. I won�t recommend any program because I have no way to telling what the future holds!

I am mid-tier on HH, Marriott, and Starwood. All three of the programs have their strong points and weaknesses. The questions you have to answer for yourself will determine which one is best for you:

- First and foremost, should you use Priceline and forget about paying 2x or 3x Priceline rates to earn points?

If you make it past that hurdle and decide that you will pay points-earning rates, move on to the following:

- How many revenue stays/nights do you do in a year? Would you be able to qualify for top-tier or mid-tier in one of the programs? That can make a difference: as Rut Dog points out, the key complaint about HH (award availability) mostly goes away when you hit the Diamond level.

- What is your dream reward, and is that the driving force behind your using a hotel program? If you are gunning for a free week at an upscale romantic hotel on Maui, then Hilton is out and Marriott might not be a great choice either if they sell the Renaissance Wailea. (Although Marriott points can be redeemed for Ritz stays, the redemption rates are pretty harsh.) If you don't care as much about 1 particular award but want a lot of flexibility to use points for a variety of stays, then Hilton and Marriott look better because they have so many properties.

- Do you do revenue stays across a variety of hotel classes and locations? If so, Marriott and Hilton are again best bets with their mid-scale and long-stay chains and more rural and suburban coverage.

- Can you take advantage of the good promotions when they arise? If you can do that, then Hyatt may truly be your best bet with that FFN thing they keep doing. Marriott sometimes has stay-three-get-a-free-weekend deals. Hilton had massive promotions in 2001 and 2002 and has been hesitant to do anything big in 2003.

Talk about bang for buck: using those massive Hilton promotions, I earned 2 weeks in Hawaii from about $2000 worth of my normal business stays in 2001 and 2002. Had to occasionally hotel-hop during a week (and I threw in the occasional peronsal Hampton stay to hit the thresholds), but it paid off with free weeks in Oahu and the Big Island. So bang for the buck varies widely when promotions are involved as your earning power can be magnified by 10x or more.

pinniped - You earned two free weels in Hawaii with HHonors with only $2K in revenue? Pelase elaborate.

Ken in Phs - I understand I get 2.5 points per dollar as starwood Platinum. That means $4,000 gets 10,000 points which I believe is the requirement for Sheraton or Westin Maui.

With Hyatt I get 6.5 points per dollar. A night at HR Maui or Kauai is 15,000 points, or $2308. I understand I can get 500 point bonuses at Starwood properties, and that helps. But I also seem to always be getting "Faster Free Nights" at Hyatts.

I'm looking for a reason to changefrom Hyatt, as I now have lifetime Diamond status. But it seems I have to spend many more revenue dollars to get to a prime resort with Starwood.

I'm on an expense account for collecting the points, so I don't get to pocket any savings by booking on Priceline.

With several 50,000 point promotions, online booking bonuses, etc. etc. I believe it was possible to get two six night stays in Hawaii with just two thousand dollars spending two years ago.

Times have changed significantly however and with new award schedules and the limitations of promotions, you would probably only be entitled to one night today. I doubt it is even possible to get two nights much less two weeks now!

[This message has been edited by cygone (edited 07-21-2003).]

In 2001 and 2002, HH had promotions that awarded 50,000 bonus points for 4 stays. There were maybe a half-dozen different promo codes going, and they would sign you up for one right after the other.

I did 16 stays and earned about 250,000 HH points. I hotel-hopped all over Tampa a couple of times while on business, plus did a few of my own Hampton stays to finish off the promos. (It was an excuse to do a couple of weekend roadtrips to some interesting rural locations. ) Total revenue was about $2k, total cost out of my pocket was probably $300 or so for the personal Hampton stays.

This is the one time since the inception of Priceline where I've seen a hotel promo actually be more lucrative than Priceline - if you can fit it into your pattern of stays and if you actually want to go to Hawaii.

Now the 50k promos are gone and it costs 75% more HH points to go to Hawaii (up from 100k to 175k for 6 free nights). I would imagine that it would you 6x or 8x more revenue now to earn the 350k points you'd now need to do this trip.

[This message has been edited by pinniped (edited 07-21-2003).]

I put together a quick spreadsheet, and here is what I came up with.

1)I compared free nights at Maui between Starwood, Hyatt and Marriott. All have properties on Kaanapali beach. I compared Hilton Waikaloa Village.
2)I used the cheapest awards I could find.
3)I assumed top-tier elite earning for all programs.
4)I ignored bonus points beyond the elite bonuses, as most of the programs provide something in this regard.

Results:

Starwood - $3,200 revenue per free night (includes the 5th night free.)

Hyatt - $2,308 revenue per free night

Hilton - $1,944 revenue per free night (Diamond level award)

Marriott - $1,264 revenue per free night

Conclusions:

This analysis may not be relevant to others, but it is to me, as these are the type of properties where I would use awards. I was surprised by the results.

The Hyatt program changed about 1 1/2 years ago. It used to take half as many points, and when I ran this analysis in 1991, they were an obvious choice for my business.

Starwood is clearly the worst value by far for this analysis, and Marriott is the clear winner. If not for the faster free nights at Hyatt, I would change to Marriott.

There is a BIG difference here.

I have reduced my travel to the extent that I �only� would spend about $15K/year at any of these chains. This is all on an expense report, so using Priceline would not benefit me at all. This translates to 12 nights at the Maui Marriott, vs. only five at the Westin or Sheraton. Hyatt would give me 7 nights, but, with the continuing faster free nights, I would get an additional 10�20 weekend nights per year.

The airline miles are insignificant compared to what I earn on United anyway, and the affinity cards are ubiquitous.

I look forward to more commentary from all of you.


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United UGS
Hyatt Lifetime Diamond
Starwood Platimun

With those data points, here are a couple more factors in favor of Marriott:

- They are everywhere and have a consistently nice product for the business customers. Urban Marriotts are, for the most part, very nice. They have fewer oddball bad properties than Sheraton and Hilton, IMHO. (I don't have enough Hyatt experience to comment on them.)

- You are doing enough volume to earn some of the best ongoing rewards out there, IMHO: the Marriott travel packages with 120,000 FF miles plus 7 nights' stay.

One possible issue: your Marriott choices on Maui are going to be limited very soon. The Kaanapali location is going all-timeshare and the smaller, romantic Renaissance Wailea is converting to Starwood (a 'W' hotel). That leaves an Outrigger that has recently converted to Marriott (I sense you want something more luxurious than this) or the Ritz Kapalua (fabulous golf destination, but very expensive in terms of MR points required).

I should consider the move. What are some of th best Marriott resort properties out there? There is more than just Maui. I have enough Hyatt points to stay at HR Maui for one week evry year for the next seven years if I want to anyway.

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United UGS
Hyatt Lifetime Diamond
Starwood Platimun

Thanks for the analysis, divaoftravel. I have a spreadsheet that calculates "value" I receive on stays of varying length, at varying dollar amounts, and at the different elite levels at Hilton, Marriott, and Starwood properties (I stay at Hyatts very rarely). The concept is the same as yours, except it is more generic rather than being specific to award redemption in one location.

The analysis of where the "value" really lies is rather complex, as a good deal depends on what value you place on an HHonors points vs. a Marriott point, etc. The room rate itself also impacts the analysis in some cases in unexpected ways.

For a nightly room rate of $100 by a top tier member at a full service property (i.e. no Courtyards or Hampton Inns or Four Points), they stack up the way you described....Marriott, Hilton, Starwood. However, from my view, the differences are nowhere near as large as your analysis would suggest. For example, my spreadsheet suggests that for a 1-night ($100) stay (top tier member), one would receive $15.66 of "value" at a Marriott, $14.85 at a Hilton, and $14.48 at a Starwood.

However, at the lower tier levels (Gold and Silver, or Base in Starwood), Hilton still beats Marriott unless you are paying $200+ per night for a room. Starwood, again, comes in last.

If you start considering stays at the non-full service properties, you have more complexity. Surprisingly, Marriott Platinum does come out on top here too. The picture is less clear at the Gold and Silver levels as the better deal will depend on how often you visit full service vs. non-full service properties. Even so, if you spend any significant time at non-full service Hiltons (i.e. Hampton Inn), Marriott will be a better bet.

It is hard for me to ignore these results, and I may be forced to reconsider going for HHonors Diamond status again next year.