I saw the ad on Flyertalk for this program- Loyalty Match. It talks about cash payments for miles, points, etc. I thought this was not legal? Is anyone aware of this program or tried to use it?

I did several searches under loyalty & match in various forums and found nothing.

Thanks.

Yes, they are "legal". Very little in awards programs can be done that would violate the law and have the police come after you.

But I suspect that this would violate the terms and conditions of the programs. You won't get arrested, but you could forfeit all of you accumulated points.

How can they do it? It's not illegal or against the program T&C to be an intermediary to such a transaction. You lose the points, LoyaltyMatch has no liability/damage.

Note the weasel words buried deep in the fine print - "In making a reward purchase or trade, you warrant and covenant to LoyaltyMatch that: (a) you are legally able to trade the rewards through the LoyaltyMatch Site, (b) you have read and agreed to the terms and conditions of for the loyalty or rewards program from which you are listing rewards to buy or trade on the LoyaltyMatch Site, and, (c) your offer to buy or trade will not violate the terms and conditions of your respective Loyalty Program as they pertain to you. "

I.e. - you are stating/committing that you have verified the T&Cs of your program and are allowed to do this.

So when you get smacked, they just say "but you stated to us that it was OK and we accepted your word - your mistake, not ours"

Hello-I am co-founder of LoyaltyMatch and would like to clarify we do not buy or sell frequent flier points or miles. Yes we have T&Cs but we don't buy/sell your points and we do not circumvent the FFP programs....the points/miles are yours and you use them based on each loyalty program's rules. How we work is, LoyaltyMatch assists FFP/loyalty program members in easily finding non flight rewards available from your program aka a search and discovery tool not unlike Google. If you cannot find a reward you want from your program, our service assists you in connecting to a member from another program allowing you to: 1) swap a reward with each member; or 2) sell the reward for cash to a buyer (e.g. like a quasi eBay or craigslist process). You can use the cash to buy what you want such as an airline ticket or use the cash(from one program) + miles(from another program) to get the ticket. We help the airlines by burning points(which turns them into revenue) and putting people in seats(real airline revenue) and helping members get the rewards they desire in challenging economic times. We have been followed by the media including Tim Winship at Smartertravel.com who stated we just might be the next big thing in travel and we recently began a partnership with Uptake.com to provide further value to loyalty program members.

Give us a try. Your first trade is free. Subsequent transactions are $1.99 and we provide a percentage of all sales to charity. Please let us know how we are doing.

Thank you,
Brad Ball

Please explain how this is legitimate with respect to the T&C of the FF programs. Airlines routinely shut down accounts because of transactions that occur on eBay or craigslist. If you are simply claiming to be the same tihng why are you any different than those venues?

Have you talked to them and do they agree with you, or are you just assuming that the airlines like this? If you have talked with carriers about your program can you please cite specific programs and the titles of the people in them that have approved of your operating scheme?

I fail to see how your service does this in any reasonable way.

To the OP, I wouldn't use this service unless you are very comfortable with the very real chance that the airline will close your account when the transaction completes.

Our members, who are located in more than 50 countries, understand how LoyaltyMatch.com works and value the service it provides. They are using LoyaltyMatch to raise money for their favorite charity, to search for and procure merchandise from their FFPs (and hundreds of other loyalty programs) to use themselves or to give as gifts, to help pay for a vacation they always wanted, or to just reduce their debt in these difficult times. I�m sorry that you can�t or simply don�t want to see the value in what we offer.

It is clear that using fancy words, loyaltymatch is creating a marketplace for
(1) Barter and (2) Buying and selling of loyalty rewards. Both of these violate the Terms and Conditions of most programs. Yes, there is value in what they provide because there is a need to do this (I would love to raise cash by selling my points so that I can buy the tickets that I want), but loyaltymatch is in no way protecting you from getting your account frozen and points forfeited.

Thank you for not actually answering my questions at all. I have to assume that if you had legitimate answers you would have provided them.

The fact that you keep focusing on folks using the program to generate cash while almost every loyalty program out there explicitly prohibits the selling of points/rewards for cash is horribly misleading to the general public.

CPRich nailed it. There's nothing fundamentally new here.

That seems like that would be an easy question for loyaltymatch to answer.

Is the (1) Barter different fundamentally from the Coupon Connection forum here on Flyertalk?

CC is a restricted barter. The restriction is that you trade travel for travel. Not travel for car repair, travel for house cleaning, or travel for cash. This way the travel companies do not lose business on balance.

Blah, blah, blah, members in 50 countries, blah, blah, blah. Just wait until your account gets locked, and you find you're the creek, with no paddle, and hey, what's that sound from around the bend...

Given that, it seems like if this Loyalty Match thing breaks the guidelines, so would CC. Unless the T&C say "no trading unless it's for travel".

I'm not a lawyer, but in my opinion most CC trades violate the letter of the program T&C's. IMHO, CC exists because it complies with the spirit of the programs by restricting trades to travel for travel. Still, if you get busted for a trade, it won't help you to say "But I did the trade on Coupon Connection". Same for any barter site. If you trade with a genuine friend, you may have a defense.

Thanks to everyone for your feedback. Obviously our message isn�t providing everyone with enough clarity. In order to assist everyone in understanding the LoyaltyMatch solution, I would like to invite FlyerTalk members to join me next week for a LoyaltyMatch Overview via an online meeting. Please forward your contact details to [email protected] and I will provide you with the details to attend next week�s online meeting.

For those whom want further information I suggest reading the InsideFlyer article at http://www.insideflyer.com/articles/...e.php?key=4673 and the comments about LoyaltyMatch, Points.com et al from the VP at AMEX. Flyertalk, New York Times, CNBC, Tim Winship, InsideFlyer and countless others understand and have embraced LoyaltyMatch.

Additionally, sjuhawk_jd would you be kind enough to provide this thread with the FFP or other loyalty program where the owner of the points and miles violates the terms and conditions of the program by using their points or miles to procure merchandise? As I stated at the beginning of this thread, redemption is the process LoyaltyMatch supports, not the process of buying or selling points/miles or points/miles tickets.

I look forward to formally discussing the LoyaltyMatch solution with all of you.

Cheers,
Brad Ball
[email protected]