Does a Million Mile Filer Exisit
 

An article in NY Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/02/business/02ROAD.html

Does a Million Mile Flier actually exist

The article is referrin to a million miles PER YEAR. As one of the interview subjects correctly points out, virtually anybody who claims a million miles a year is counting bonuses. A million real miles a year would be very challenging but not impossible.

The middle ground is what do the airlines count for million miler status. Delta used to count everything, and as a result there were a couple years when I did earn a million miles a year. They then switched to base miles only for "milliom miler miles", so the most recent million took several years.

American, I think, still counts everything. As a result, I recently got to 1MM despite having flown them relatively little. I started with a few hundred thousand on AA, then a few hundred more from TWA, and then a couple hundred from Marriott to put me over the top, and provide me with permanent gold status.

No Way; it's 19,231 miles per week. Even giving somebody a complete long-haul benefit of the doubt, they don't make it.

If somebody in Chicago needed to be in Hong Kong on even numbered weeks and Cape Town (via LHR) on odd numbered weeks--returning to Chicago in-between, with no weeks off, that's only 950,000 miles

It also would average out to 35 hours a week in the cabin. Counting airport time, jet lag, ground transportation, eating and sleeping, how much work could they possibly accomplish?

I think we beat this to death here. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/009053.html

Edited because I still can't get the stupid coding right!

[This message has been edited by BigLar (edited 09-02-2003).]

[This message has been edited by BigLar (edited 09-02-2003).]

I agree with you, csb, but as the article states, others insist that there is such a flyer. But no proof has been offerred, nor has anybody seemed to make such a claim on their own behalf.

The artisle has some interesting statistics, but I also calculate that 1M flight miles would mean about 25% of your life in the cabin.

Other anecdotal evidence also suggests such a flyer does not exist. I think United might be one of the most likely airlines for such a flyer to exist, as they are based in the largest market (US) and have the most trans-pacific flights for such a carrier. I asked a United UGS supervisor if such a flyer existed with them, and she said no. (Of course she would only know about Star Alliance activity.)

Until somebody steps up with verifiable mileage statments, I don't believe in the million flight miles per year flyer.

------------------
United UGS, 1K, Million Mile Flyer
Hyatt Lifetime Diamond
Starwood Platimun

Maybe it's the president? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Or an Astronaut?

Or.... A pilot?!

Pilots would not be permitted to spend that much time working.

If you mean the President of the US, I think he might make 100K, but probably not even that. It would cut into vacation time at the ranch.

I know friends who have flown Million miles a year - yes base miles. Senior exec of operations with far flung global locations flew practically everyday and always returned home to the family for the weekend.

I also know of others who used to commute weekly from Australia to the US and did US business travel (transcon) as well.

All of them always paid economy and always flew First/Business (complimetary upgrades by the airlines). Crew and airlines knew them well, recognized them with top tier published and unpublished status (Delta, Qantas, United if I recall correctly).

Just curious How many friends? and how many others? Many of us would be surprised that there is a single such person, let alone several. Maybe you could put your friends in touch with that writer at the Times, as he did express an interest in contacting such a person.

I could maybe see that this could conceivably happen in the case of a carrier that flies to Australia, but am skeptical about Delta. (note that the passenger would have to spend over 40 hours a week sitting on a plane, 52 weeks a year, so it is still very hard to believe, but possible). I am also skeptical that anybody would always pay economy, yet always fly first/business. Maybe 80-90%, but not 100%. Thanks

A friend of my brother-in-law had his kidneys removed after he was drugged at a hotel in China!

A friend of my broth-in-law got the kidneys

Kidneys? Both of them? Really? What a story! Did I tell you about the bridge I have for sale...

As someone who has gone through dialysis and a kidney transplant... back on track please!

Moderator....

"Pilots would not be permitted to spend that much time working."


Not really,

Lets say a pilot works 4 days per week. Lets say he flies JFK-EZE-JFK. Two roundtrips per week.

Thats 22,000 each week. Mind you he's only behind the controlls half that time, he's resting the other half but still airborne.

This means he's only have yo work 46 weeks out of the year to make 1,000,000 miles.



[This message has been edited by Psychocadet (edited 09-03-2003).]

If not a pilot, a fligt attedant?

I don't think airlines would schedule a pilot for two roundtrips per week between JFK and Argentina, 46 weeks a year. If so, I wouldn't want to be a passenger.

I noticed on United, most long-haul pilots seemed to do 3-4 roundtrips per month. Any airline employees care to comment on such restrictions for pilots and/or flight attendants?

Anyway, the claim I really need to see proof of is a revenue passenger with 1M actual flight miles per year!

[This message has been edited by divaof travel (edited 09-03-2003).]

divaof travel - do you also need to see proof that the sun comes up each day???? It is OBVIOUS to most of us that this occurs and we accept it as true.

After you branded himself and myself both liars, you were shown VERY clearly only a month back - in the thread referenced here, that a million paid revenue miles is NOT such a big deal. As B Watson said - it is simply the nature of many businesses for executives to travel that much.

Qantas top flier does that. It is a weekly trip overseas for him. No big deal to do in sleeper First Suites.

You were shown by his post that Flyertalk Moderator B Watson himself does about 800,000 paid flown miles a year as do 3 of his staff. There clearly are lots more folks who fly more than that a year worldwide. One imagines however they do not have the inclination to WRITE about it on a BB. Folks like you will brand them liars anyway no doubt?

Why do you choose again NOT to believe what was clearly placed in front of you only a month back?

--------------------------------------------------------------------


[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 09-04-2003).]

ozstamps - You just can't let it go, can you? Why do you twist my opinion into a personal attack? When I challenge you to provide evidence, you say I am calling you a liar. Lighten up! What would you do if we were meeting face to face? Punch me? (“Hey, mate, are you calling me a liar? How dare you! Put ‘em up!”)

As I said many times, I do not doubt your belief in this claim, just the accuracy of it. If I had wanted to call you a liar I would call you a, well a liar. Look up the definition of the word. You have a right to your own opinion, and so do I.

Anyway, if you read the NY Times article that started this thread, you will see that most people quoted there are skeptical about the claim, as I am. On this thread, pioneer and csb are also skeptical.

I know that B Watson also believes that a MM flyer exists, but he has offered no firm evidence either, just his opinion. 800,000 does not equal 1M, and it would become exponentially more difficult to get the extra 200K miles. A United MP supervisor told me she has never heard of a MM flyer on that airline.

I have been educated as a scientist. I have seen proof that the sun rises in the morning on numerous occasions. But I have not seen proof that a million mile per year revenue flyer exists.

Why don’t you offer up the proof and make me eat my words? I will if there is a follow-up NY Times article as indicated. In the meantime, I hope that you will stop taking this personally. It is an interesting debate without such digressions.

[This message has been edited by divaof travel (edited 09-04-2003).]

[This message has been edited by divaof travel (edited 09-04-2003).]

goodness gracious!

Diva makes an excellent point. 700 or 800 MM is believable for somebody traveling between the Northern and Southern hemispheres on a regular basis, maybe even 900, but that's not a million. Maybe there is somebody that has flown the equivalent of 40 times around the world in a year, but in the absence of documented proof I've gotta think that the million base mile claim is a result of either including some bonuses and/or rounding up.

I'm mostly on DL and they don't even report actual miles to me. They do have million miler miles, but that includes 500 (previously 1000) miles for an 83 mile flight (CVG-SDF) , and also occasional double base miles.

If somebody really does think that they have over a million real miles, then that would presumably be the sum of one primary carrier plus some miles from other carriers. It would be very difficult to compile accurate data.

On the other hand, just because the carriers MIGHT say that they don't have anybody with a million actual miles in a year, that doesn't mean that such a person doesn't exist, as it might be 750 on one carrier plus 250 on others. But I'm still very skeptical.

Let's see. SYD-LAX-JFK roundtrip would yield 19,936 miles. That means somebody would have to do this trip 51 weeks out of the year to top 1 million butt-in-the-seat miles.

According to Expedia it also means that they would be spending 39 hours and 18 minutes per week just in the cabin. Now factor in the layover time, check-in, Customs and travel time to and from the airport...

I'm not calling anyone a liar, but until I see Joe Sharkey's column state the Flyer X has sent him copies of his mileage statement proving that he flew a million miles in a year, I'm not buying it. Anectdotal evidence is just that.

Flying FC may also give you bonus status miles (ie 50% with NW), so someone would have to travel:

real miles: 700,000
bonus miles: 350,000
total status miles: 1,050,000

So, someone reporting a total of 1,000,000 status miles in a year may not travel that in reality.

Just to help out the discussion. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

To solve this apparent dilemma, I'll be willing to subject myself to such harsh circumstances and fly 1M butt-in-seat miles within a year if someone else will pay for it. All you need to do is buy me 26 RTWSTAR3 tickets and figure out some routings... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Then we'll know it can be done and have proof that it has been, and I get to go lots of places for free. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I don't know if you guys heard of the "Amazing Kreskin" (his official name). he said he fly a few million miles every year, "more than any professional pilot". He always sleep on airplane and fly daily.

2 longhauls per week for 46 weeks?!? That's a good one. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

The average UAL pilot only flew 36 hours per month in 2001. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

US airline pilots are not allowed to fly more than 100 hours per month, and are not allowed to exceed 1,000 in a year.

The average WN pilot (most productive in the USA) only flew about 75 hours each month in 2001.

Accordingly, no way could a commercial pilot rack up more than about 500k in a given year (and most fly only a fraction of that).

I was talking about 2 different people and also one or two of their colleagues with whom they have swapped stories. These are highly paid executives at public companies who would be embarassed to talk about it and would definitely not discuss their experiences with any reporter. They consider my interest in mile "nutty".

The key assumption that many seem to be making is that people are awake and wasting time on these flts. The two I mentioned eat, work and sleep on planes - they simply don't waste air time. They do not see it as something you do in addition to your work - but as an integral port of your sleep. They spent more time on the planes than in an office. Their companies at that time had not bought time in corporate jets (pre 9/11) as most of the travel was international and these execs did not find it cost effective. Today they have settled down with families and do not intend to travel that much. They might have been borderline 1 Million miles as I did not look at their FF stmts but went by their recalling of frequency and routes to see that it was indeed in the range.

In the Y2K era; a QA person for a financial intsitution flew every week {for two years} from Midwest to Bangalore (india) and back; carrying critical set of CDs. He was about a million and change / year for the last two years.

Many bonded couriers who carry diamonds between NYC and some of the polishing centers might do more than a million a year, however these folks will probably never join flyertalk http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

No, I pointed out you are wrong. And YOU simply do not accept that reality. I twisted nothing.

You already called both myself and B Watson liars on the referenced thread, so repeating it here is not necessary thank you. You appear to be conspiciously alone in holding that view on either thread.

www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/009053-2.html

As I pointed out previously, the QF million FLOWN PAID mile flyer info was posted here and discussed years before you joined FT. It was also reported the head guy of Lions or Rotary IIRC also exceeded that mark, and I feel sure other truly serious flyers do these miles too.

Just because YOU do not believe this does not surprise me at all.

The QF guy is in executive recruitment and flies to Europe on average once a week to interview.

You are allegedly the scientist, so go do some Math. Find a pocket calculator. Or an abacus perhaps.

Let me help you out here - SYD-SIN-LHR are the airport codes you need:

http://www.webflyer.com/travel/milemarker

One of those a week with NO other flying whatever and you get 5 weeks vacation AND rack up OVER A MILLION FLOWN.

But you clever scientist types might disagree with my math. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

------------------
~ Glen ~

Come visit HERE the most ** FRIENDLY FORUM ** on FlyerTalk. No flame wars, no personal abuse, no substance abuse. Not much of anything really!


[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 09-07-2003).]

--------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by csb:
No Way; it's 19,231 miles per week. Even giving somebody a complete long-haul benefit of the doubt, they don't make it..


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with you, csb, but as the article states, others insist that there is such a flyer. But no proof has been offerred, nor has anybody seemed to make such a claim on their own behalf.

The artisle has some interesting statistics, but I also calculate that 1M flight miles would mean about 25% of your life in the cabin.

Other anecdotal evidence also suggests such a flyer does not exist. I think United might be one of the most likely airlines for such a flyer to exist, as they are based in the largest market (US) and have the most trans-pacific flights for such a carrier. I asked a United UGS supervisor if such a flyer existed with them, and she said no. (Of course she would only know about Star Alliance activity.)

Until somebody steps up with verifiable mileage statments, I don't believe in the million flight miles per year flyer.

------------------
United UGS, 1K, Million Mile Flyer
Hyatt Lifetime Diamond
Starwood Platimun
------------------------------------------

divaoftravel,

I agreed with originally about it being impossible to fly 1M miles in a year. Then all of a sudden yesterday I found out that my dog's brother's owner's maid's father actually DID fly 1M miles in one year. Unfortunately when I asked for documentation to show everybody at FT, I found out that all his documentation was destroyed when his house burned down in a fire. But supposedly he is a trustworthy guy, there'd be no tall tale Paul Bunyon-type mileage bragging on his part, or at least that's what my dog tells me http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

gregorygrady - So your other 16 posts on FT were equally informative I hope? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Yeah, gregorygrady, don't you know that you have to have over 16,000 posts before any of them are of any value? Or in ozstamps case, it may be 17,000.

BTW, I heard that your dog's brother actually SAVED the statements from the fire, but then he ate them.

ozzie -

1) Reality? You use that word loosely and incorrectly. I hope that you are either jet-lagged or spaced out on diazepams. Surely you don’t really believe all of the hogwash you are spewing. You BELIEVE I am wrong, but you haven't proven it by any objective standards. We could agree to disagree on this, but you are so insecure that you accuse me of calling you a liar, which I never did. So the burden of proof is on you. Why are you so insecure? Perhaps you have no conviction in your claim?

2) Again, are you jet-lagged? You question my math ability, but you don't seem to be able to count, or read or perhaps both. The majority on this thread so far agree with me. And the NY Times article that started this thread reflects the same cynicism.

3) You are very adept in the mechanics of this forum, so I am surprised you haven't posted this thread you refer to.

[/B][/QUOTE]

4) I don’t know why you keep pounding on this point, which you have already made. It is the only thing you say that makes any sense. But of course it is not the topic of debate. I don’t think anybody has argued that this is physically impossible. In fact, up to about 4M actual flight miles a year is physically possible at 500mph. The math of course is trivial.

I'll give you a brief primer on science, since you seem to think it means being able to operate a calculator. The scientific principle teaches that theories are not fact until proven through direct observation. I have always said that I do not BELIEVE that a 1M mile per year revenue flyer exists. You claim that you have presented factual proof, but all you have done so far is state your opinion. The burden of proof is on you.

As before, I will allow you to get the last word in on this subject as I am sure you will repeat your gibberish again. This seems to be important to you. If you make any new points, I will be happy to respond (and probably correct you.) In the meantime, I would rather argue with my four-year old, who seems to have more common sense, and doesn’t kick and scream anymore when she doesn’t get her way.

PLEASE play nicely folks! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

FWIW, IMHO, while it is surely possible, and in fact seemingly been accompliched, one million miles in a just one year, (no less year after year), is so darn tough to accomplish that it may well, even for those who truly love to fly, take the "fun" out of it! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Also, lots of radiation and cabin air to be exposed to, as well, make it somewhat of a potential health concern to me as well!

To anyone doing this incredible milestone, I salute you all! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

-Mark

Careful doc. Having 40,000 posts, AND being a scientist you may confuse the chattering classes.

Sorry, it is impossible to have nearly 40,000 posts as no other FT'er has even half that. My sleek new Abacus III wireless states you may only have 19,652 maximum. This is science at work. A wonderful thing science.

The same way that a FT'er and his key staff that all clock up 800,000 a year PAID FLOWN MILES is agreed as accurate, surely means that 20% more is NOT possible for any other person on earth. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I do agree with you that the effects of radiation exposure are a real and present danger. A few posts above appear to amply prove the point. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

------------------------------------------------------

[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 09-07-2003).]

You are repeating yourself on this point for about the fifth time, so I will repudiate it again. (ADD?)

Try this with your calculator. 1,000,000 minus 800,000 should not equal zero. I disagree that it is easily conceivable that somebody could post the additional 200,000 miles.

(BTW, 1M miles is 25% more than 800,000 not 20% more. But you yourself have admitted you are not good at math.)

Although not documented, I accept the 800K (which was previously reported at 700K for B_Watson). BUT (as I stated before, perhaps you didn't read), it would become exponentially more difficult for somebody to accumulate an additional 200,000 flight miles when they are in the air so much already.

Are you perhaps thinking about kilometers, or the Australian exchange rate?

Also, your original claim was that the "Qantas top flier does well over a million paid actual miles a year," indicating multiple years at this level. This is where our disagreement started, so where is the proof of this, or just one year at "only" 1M flight miles.

I would be happy to chalk this up as a difference of opinion. But you insist to yourself that I am “wrong” and you are “right.” You initiated the personal attacks, and escalated them. I have simply responded to your barbs with my own. You can sure dish it out, but don’t like to take it in return.

Just because I don’t have 16,000 posts on this forum does not mean my opinion is uninformed. As you yourself said, those who might have the most knowledge on this subject may not post as often as others. Using that logic – your own logic, my measly 200 posts are far more valuable than your 16,000.

Neither one of us has offered irrefutable evidence supporting our positions (although you continue to try and present your opinion as “fact.”) Why don’t we agree to disagree on this until somebody can verify it? After all, it is simply both of our opinions until that time, right? If you would respect mine, I would most certainly respect yours.


[This message has been edited by divaof travel (edited 09-07-2003).]

divaof travel - when I mentioned as an example of how heavily even those in our midst fly, I knew B Watson flew at least 700,000 paid a year, (simply as he had mentioned this to me over drinks earlier this year) - and YOU grandly responded -

Seemed like you were ALSO rather cock-sure of your "Math" even then? LATER you squirmed and back-tracked as well as any politician after this verification post of that fact:

divaof travel - now you show us you clearly have done a back flip on your rude and untrue comments: "I don't believe that for a minute. An urban legend for frequent flyers" and yet even in your post immediately ABOVE still absurdly state B Watson's clear statement re 800,000 flown paid miles is "not documented."

What are you looking for .... a Notary Public seal on a letter? An email from his priest or rabbi etc? Photocopies of his elite statements? Barton is a Moderator here, and flies more than anyone on Flyertalk IMO, and his posting it is good enough for me. You of course are quite free to pretend or believe it is not true, call us both liars, and claim it is an "urban legend". Others will form their own views of your stance.

You curiously choose NOT to dispute this post on THIS thread of executives who fly a million base miles and are in similar Global jobs to B Watson, and the Qantas top flier:

As posted elsewhere my neighbour used to fly EVERY week SYD-SFO-SYD in COACH and come home each weekend to spend with his family. Did this for years. Lots of people clearly fly a LOT more than you imagine.

Welcome to Flyertalk - I hope you continue learning more about folks you clearly did not dream existed until you joined. Making 1K on UA is simple - takes 3 or 4 tickets a year. We are talking about REAL heavy flyers here.

And your rude comments below I see are consistent with your earlier posts. At least you are not back-flipping on the Australian insults:

And leave others to reflect on another of your (totally unedited) valuable and informative posts -

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

ozzie -

The only thing I have ever challenged in these threads is the 1M flight miles/year. You know this, because as you quote me above, I challenge 2739 miles/day which equals 1M/yr. Again, we confront the difference between 1M and the other irrelevant nubers you have offered up, like 700,000 or 800,000.

So you again have taken my quotes out of context and out of sequence to try and support your directionless meandering.

You would not even accept agreeing to disagree, so you know what? You win! I concede!

Who would have believed it, but your overwhelming evidence has convinced me that that 800,000 really does equal 1 million! You have really taught me something in this, you "real heavy flyer" you!

The question is, now that you have won, do you STILL have to get in the last word, too?

------------------
United UGS, 1K, Million Mile Flyer
Hyatt Lifetime Diamond
Starwood Platimun


[This message has been edited by divaof travel (edited 09-08-2003).]

If anyone is flying 1M miles per year, I think we can safely assume it isn't Oz or Divaof Travel. With all this infantile bickering, finger pointing, and numbskullery, you two can't possibly have time left over for that much flying.