"Pilots would not be permitted to spend that much time working."


Not really,

Lets say a pilot works 4 days per week. Lets say he flies JFK-EZE-JFK. Two roundtrips per week.

Thats 22,000 each week. Mind you he's only behind the controlls half that time, he's resting the other half but still airborne.

This means he's only have yo work 46 weeks out of the year to make 1,000,000 miles.



[This message has been edited by Psychocadet (edited 09-03-2003).]

If not a pilot, a fligt attedant?

I don't think airlines would schedule a pilot for two roundtrips per week between JFK and Argentina, 46 weeks a year. If so, I wouldn't want to be a passenger.

I noticed on United, most long-haul pilots seemed to do 3-4 roundtrips per month. Any airline employees care to comment on such restrictions for pilots and/or flight attendants?

Anyway, the claim I really need to see proof of is a revenue passenger with 1M actual flight miles per year!

[This message has been edited by divaof travel (edited 09-03-2003).]

divaof travel - do you also need to see proof that the sun comes up each day???? It is OBVIOUS to most of us that this occurs and we accept it as true.

After you branded himself and myself both liars, you were shown VERY clearly only a month back - in the thread referenced here, that a million paid revenue miles is NOT such a big deal. As B Watson said - it is simply the nature of many businesses for executives to travel that much.

Qantas top flier does that. It is a weekly trip overseas for him. No big deal to do in sleeper First Suites.

You were shown by his post that Flyertalk Moderator B Watson himself does about 800,000 paid flown miles a year as do 3 of his staff. There clearly are lots more folks who fly more than that a year worldwide. One imagines however they do not have the inclination to WRITE about it on a BB. Folks like you will brand them liars anyway no doubt?

Why do you choose again NOT to believe what was clearly placed in front of you only a month back?

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[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 09-04-2003).]

ozstamps - You just can't let it go, can you? Why do you twist my opinion into a personal attack? When I challenge you to provide evidence, you say I am calling you a liar. Lighten up! What would you do if we were meeting face to face? Punch me? (“Hey, mate, are you calling me a liar? How dare you! Put ‘em up!”)

As I said many times, I do not doubt your belief in this claim, just the accuracy of it. If I had wanted to call you a liar I would call you a, well a liar. Look up the definition of the word. You have a right to your own opinion, and so do I.

Anyway, if you read the NY Times article that started this thread, you will see that most people quoted there are skeptical about the claim, as I am. On this thread, pioneer and csb are also skeptical.

I know that B Watson also believes that a MM flyer exists, but he has offered no firm evidence either, just his opinion. 800,000 does not equal 1M, and it would become exponentially more difficult to get the extra 200K miles. A United MP supervisor told me she has never heard of a MM flyer on that airline.

I have been educated as a scientist. I have seen proof that the sun rises in the morning on numerous occasions. But I have not seen proof that a million mile per year revenue flyer exists.

Why don’t you offer up the proof and make me eat my words? I will if there is a follow-up NY Times article as indicated. In the meantime, I hope that you will stop taking this personally. It is an interesting debate without such digressions.

[This message has been edited by divaof travel (edited 09-04-2003).]

[This message has been edited by divaof travel (edited 09-04-2003).]

goodness gracious!

Diva makes an excellent point. 700 or 800 MM is believable for somebody traveling between the Northern and Southern hemispheres on a regular basis, maybe even 900, but that's not a million. Maybe there is somebody that has flown the equivalent of 40 times around the world in a year, but in the absence of documented proof I've gotta think that the million base mile claim is a result of either including some bonuses and/or rounding up.

I'm mostly on DL and they don't even report actual miles to me. They do have million miler miles, but that includes 500 (previously 1000) miles for an 83 mile flight (CVG-SDF) , and also occasional double base miles.

If somebody really does think that they have over a million real miles, then that would presumably be the sum of one primary carrier plus some miles from other carriers. It would be very difficult to compile accurate data.

On the other hand, just because the carriers MIGHT say that they don't have anybody with a million actual miles in a year, that doesn't mean that such a person doesn't exist, as it might be 750 on one carrier plus 250 on others. But I'm still very skeptical.

Let's see. SYD-LAX-JFK roundtrip would yield 19,936 miles. That means somebody would have to do this trip 51 weeks out of the year to top 1 million butt-in-the-seat miles.

According to Expedia it also means that they would be spending 39 hours and 18 minutes per week just in the cabin. Now factor in the layover time, check-in, Customs and travel time to and from the airport...

I'm not calling anyone a liar, but until I see Joe Sharkey's column state the Flyer X has sent him copies of his mileage statement proving that he flew a million miles in a year, I'm not buying it. Anectdotal evidence is just that.

Flying FC may also give you bonus status miles (ie 50% with NW), so someone would have to travel:

real miles: 700,000
bonus miles: 350,000
total status miles: 1,050,000

So, someone reporting a total of 1,000,000 status miles in a year may not travel that in reality.

Just to help out the discussion. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

To solve this apparent dilemma, I'll be willing to subject myself to such harsh circumstances and fly 1M butt-in-seat miles within a year if someone else will pay for it. All you need to do is buy me 26 RTWSTAR3 tickets and figure out some routings... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Then we'll know it can be done and have proof that it has been, and I get to go lots of places for free. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I don't know if you guys heard of the "Amazing Kreskin" (his official name). he said he fly a few million miles every year, "more than any professional pilot". He always sleep on airplane and fly daily.

2 longhauls per week for 46 weeks?!? That's a good one. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

The average UAL pilot only flew 36 hours per month in 2001. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

US airline pilots are not allowed to fly more than 100 hours per month, and are not allowed to exceed 1,000 in a year.

The average WN pilot (most productive in the USA) only flew about 75 hours each month in 2001.

Accordingly, no way could a commercial pilot rack up more than about 500k in a given year (and most fly only a fraction of that).

I was talking about 2 different people and also one or two of their colleagues with whom they have swapped stories. These are highly paid executives at public companies who would be embarassed to talk about it and would definitely not discuss their experiences with any reporter. They consider my interest in mile "nutty".

The key assumption that many seem to be making is that people are awake and wasting time on these flts. The two I mentioned eat, work and sleep on planes - they simply don't waste air time. They do not see it as something you do in addition to your work - but as an integral port of your sleep. They spent more time on the planes than in an office. Their companies at that time had not bought time in corporate jets (pre 9/11) as most of the travel was international and these execs did not find it cost effective. Today they have settled down with families and do not intend to travel that much. They might have been borderline 1 Million miles as I did not look at their FF stmts but went by their recalling of frequency and routes to see that it was indeed in the range.

In the Y2K era; a QA person for a financial intsitution flew every week {for two years} from Midwest to Bangalore (india) and back; carrying critical set of CDs. He was about a million and change / year for the last two years.

Many bonded couriers who carry diamonds between NYC and some of the polishing centers might do more than a million a year, however these folks will probably never join flyertalk http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

No, I pointed out you are wrong. And YOU simply do not accept that reality. I twisted nothing.

You already called both myself and B Watson liars on the referenced thread, so repeating it here is not necessary thank you. You appear to be conspiciously alone in holding that view on either thread.

www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/009053-2.html

As I pointed out previously, the QF million FLOWN PAID mile flyer info was posted here and discussed years before you joined FT. It was also reported the head guy of Lions or Rotary IIRC also exceeded that mark, and I feel sure other truly serious flyers do these miles too.

Just because YOU do not believe this does not surprise me at all.

The QF guy is in executive recruitment and flies to Europe on average once a week to interview.

You are allegedly the scientist, so go do some Math. Find a pocket calculator. Or an abacus perhaps.

Let me help you out here - SYD-SIN-LHR are the airport codes you need:

http://www.webflyer.com/travel/milemarker

One of those a week with NO other flying whatever and you get 5 weeks vacation AND rack up OVER A MILLION FLOWN.

But you clever scientist types might disagree with my math. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

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~ Glen ~

Come visit HERE the most ** FRIENDLY FORUM ** on FlyerTalk. No flame wars, no personal abuse, no substance abuse. Not much of anything really!


[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 09-07-2003).]