passport goes by the name on his immigration/naturalization records and he came from South Korea when he was like 3. he said he has little chance of getting them to change this.

BUT he does have a credit card with HAROLD on it so the SSN would match to his last name and other stuff in both names.

He can also hope they will be less ball busters than they might be and play the angle that this is just a matter of name switches and not passenger switches. Indeed they are far different things.

I will be helping him the best I can and the stuff in these threads is great, so thank you for posting ALL views. This is a hot issue. It sucks too since the close-minded view that some in security have is what dissallows the normal people in this world who simply do not fit into the majority ruled norm!

My wife flew out of here on her old passport and used her marraige cert to show to customs. She had gotten her own green card (she is dutch and recently flew home to see family on her own) and yet, this card was not yet mailed to her. The way it works is that immigration stamps the card info and A number into your passport and that is what you use before the actual green card (which, btw, is not green) comes in the mail weeks later.

So she had to hold onto her old passport with the old last name on it. She had to travel on it. She could not turn it in to switch it because there would not have been enough time to get it back. They allowed everything though. SHe had other IDs. So will Harold, when we fly in AUG.

We will be ready... Hey, they may haveto charge for extra baggage since I am telling him to bring EVERYTHING he has to show he is the same person.

In terms of miles, he DID sign up for the Air Tahiti mileage club as Hong SIk Harold Kim.

I know the way people think is that if it is on the computer, it must be real:

the agent who checks him in will see that and his FFP card will say that! This, plus his other IDs will help him.

MM

This is an email (below) I got in response to a rather informal question to the booking agent, Zuji. It offers some hope, as my friend's problem at least involves the same LAST name... (We also got our tickets in the mail already, but Harold has joined the Tahiti Airlines frequent flier program as Hong Sik Harold Kim, among other things I am having him ramp up to doing.)

But before you read it, I ask the world: When it comes to first names being shortened, etc, who draws the line and where? I mean, my wife is Johanna, but in Holland where she was born, this is almost always HANNIE, and they know it as much as the Aussies would call her JO.

It's just the way it is in THAT country at THAT time...Over here, she has had trouble when someone gets her name wrong.
Read on:

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:41:10 +1000 (EST)
From: "Bob Smith" <[email protected]> |
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: customer question on ticketing through ZUJI

Dear Jeff,

Thank-you for your e-mail.

Airline tickets should be booked with the same name as shown in the passport or Identity papers. Some shortened first names are still considered okay - such as Bob for Robert or Jeff for Jeffery.

If however it is the family name or surname that is generally not able to be changed without a ticket reissuance and the fees involved.

If you have any doubt, check with the airline.

If your profile is not correct then you can change by selecting MY ZUJI, MY ACCOUNT,and then EDIT PROFILE - the name should be
changed to what is shown on your passport to avoid any confusion.

Bob Smith
The ZUJI Team
Your online travel guru

My brother changed his first name to his nickname when he turned 21 and his last name when he got married (don't ask). His passport doesn't match his green card because the Dutch government doesn't recognize name changes, but the US gov't does. He flies internationally without much problem, although he is asked occasionally for some proof of the name change. I suspect if your friend has documentation that shows both names he will be ok. He may need to answer more questions than otherwise. of course, if he can get the name on the ticket chnaged before flying he'd be better off.

my friend said he will compose a letter that explains his whole use of HAROLD and will bring with him EVERYTHING he has, including other docs and a credit card he even uses.

I guess we may be ok if prepaired.

as for the dutch goverment not recognizing changes, I dunno if that is 100% true, as THEY asked my wife to kindly update the passport, which she was able to do in her town in 3 business days (unlike here where it takes longer) and she had to send a letter to Den Haag. Since she is hyphenated, it will help her with any instances in Holland still unresolved. For example, some old bank account she hardly uses that has her listed under the old sirname will let her get access with less hassle, etc.

check that dutch thing again...

MM

hey, what my wife SHOULD consider trying is to set up one airline acct under one last name and another under the new one and then seeing if she can try to merge them and get it all! ha ha

nah...

In reference to trying to reduce or get no fees to do a simple first name edit, I have received yet another email from my CS contact at ZUJI, who we used to book the Air Tahiti tickets.

One could argue the old "never look a gift horse in the mouth" thing, but this reply, though offering some hope, is still not quite good enough. My reply to the latest email is at the bottom, and we will now write the airline to try to get it lowered even still:


--- Bob Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
>
> Now that I know what the airfare is, the ticket is changeable
> at a
> cost of USD150.00 for the airline and USD40 for ZUJI. If the
> airline
> can authorise a change locally, then you would not have to
> send them
> back to our ticket office and could avoid the ZUJI fee.
>
> Again, let me know the outcome with Air Tahiti Nui.
>
> But at least you know that all is not lost (only USD150 -190).
>
> Bob Smith
> The ZUJI Team
> Your online travel guru
>
*****
MY REPLY:

Hello again, and thank you!

I'n reference to the listed fees with Air Tahiti, I think that's a lot better but it's still a chunk of money. I do thank you for letting me know something is possible, however, and will be sure that my friend writes to the airline to see what they do.

I think your $40 fee is fine, and we would be willing to pay that to you if we must go through Zuji. We will find out by first contacting them. But the $150 you say the airline would want is still a lot of money, and even though one might think it is better than the alternatively feared $600, I think we should at least ask them to do a bit better than $150 just the same. It certainly can't hirt for us to write and ask. Maybe they will reduce it or take it away, based on the circumstances. In that case, we would be lucky, but also feeling better in the end.

So we will write to them and see, and then of course, we will let you know.

Thanks again for your help.
*****

MM

Last year I booked trip for 4 folks on the internet at AF & entered 'Steve" instead of 'Stephen'. He called Air France & they had him drive from San Jose to their office in SFO. He brought his passport & the paper ticket & they re-issued him a new ticket in 'Stephen' at no charge no hassle.It is worth a try to call yoyur carrie's office & plead you case

I guess they figured the traffic on the 101 from San Jose to SFO was punishment enough.

I for one think this name matching is critical to my safety while flying.

I sincerely regret that Mohammed Atta's passport didn't read "Muhammed Atta." Then airline security would have stopped him in his tracks and thousands of innocent lives would have been saved.

P.S. My wife has changed her married name tix to match maiden name passport at no charge and no hassle, pre-9/11 though.

Perhaps this Korean fellow can use some kind of married gay name change deal using a quickie Vermont wedding now that the Supremes have voted sodomy OK.

FYI - food, rugs and vases are Oriental. People are Asian.

BH

I hope things all worked out for your friend.

Traveling internationally is different of course, because there is only one form of ID. Domestically however, I have my passport in old name and DL in new (married) name. I will not change my passport until every last thing I have is changed (FF#, credit cards etc.) At various times hotels have asked for ID with a reservation and FF# in one name and cc in other name. I have ID for both! I hope this is to terribly illegal, but I will continue for now.

P.S. Some here could say get a move on for the name changes, but it is a big hassle, especially for FF programs!

Do not seek a fool's paradise my FT buddy, for you seek safety through hollow means.

Name matching will only save us from your average criminal (terrorists being mass criminals). The smarter criminals would get around such problemts, and get around them easily.

Mohammed Atta, Mohammad Atta, Muhammed Atta, Muhammad Atta, or by whatever name he may have chosen to go by on his ID card would not have spared us that day, for man knows few limits in the application of creativity to unleash destruction.

I also find the fact that roman/cyrillic alphabetizations of non-european names could be a tyranny in and of itself. There ought to be no standard that says English (or any other language) is required, nor should there be on a national level -- especially in the US (although I don't think we should go out of our way to make things "bi-lingual"). [Requiring Japanese, Chinese, Indians, Arabs, Thais, etc to use the roman alphabet in their own corners of the world is the height of cultural arrogance when we are less than a 100 years away from an era where the West's dominance will be more balanced with the rest than it has been in the past 500 years even as most of the above cultures/language groups will willingly adopt English for practical, pecuniary benefits.] The idea of first/last name or given/surname is bunk in some cultures; but that does not invalidate their concept of "identity". Identity is not based on name and name alone. As we get away from the idea of overreliance on identity as name, the safer and more informed we will be.

RS, as you seek safety from terrorist incidents in the air, you require any or all of the following three items:

1. Person does not have in his possession items that could pose a risk;
2. Cargo does not contain items that could pose a risk; and
3. The intentions of the actual passenger (or matrix of passengers) and actual cargo (or matrix of cargo) sender are known not to be hostile.

1 and 2 we can make attempts at guaranteeing. Item 3. is a matter of mind reading, and we don't do that well -- yet! ;-)

Really? You think if Atta's name matched on his passport, and the airport security would catch him? Did you remember that INS send him the visa 1 year after 911, with the correct name?

If INS can't realize the name match, why would you think the airport personnel would catch him that day?

My comment was intended to be a joke!

My comment was intended to be a joke!

[This message has been edited by RS (edited 07-09-2003).]

Now, RS, for a moment there, I was concerned. I thought the men in black had come and taken you into General Ashcroft's Star Chamber. ;-)